From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Juanma Barranquero Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Key bindings proposal Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2010 13:24:08 +0200 Message-ID: References: <19534.1494.627000.357123@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <19537.40472.267000.563053@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <176EDAD3B9E54E39870FA3F84A5DDF3C@us.oracle.com> <19542.56658.583000.394397@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <19544.1015.468000.280770@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <19546.30901.687000.971249@gargle.gargle.HOWL> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1281023012 18741 80.91.229.12 (5 Aug 2010 15:43:32 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2010 15:43:32 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Uday S Reddy , Drew Adams , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Lennart Borgman Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Aug 05 17:43:30 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Oh2bR-0001Yd-VK for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 05 Aug 2010 17:43:30 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49148 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Oh2bR-0003Rf-5a for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 05 Aug 2010 11:43:29 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=44215 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Oh295-0008Vu-AH for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 05 Aug 2010 11:14:12 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Oh294-0006VV-Af for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 05 Aug 2010 11:14:11 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-iw0-f169.google.com ([209.85.214.169]:52319) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Oh294-0006VO-7N for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 05 Aug 2010 11:14:10 -0400 Original-Received: by iwn10 with SMTP id 10so339520iwn.0 for ; Thu, 05 Aug 2010 08:14:09 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:mime-version:received:in-reply-to :references:from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=RDLAByeIieUzcVe2e6bkPoSAvhBKzUskBP9h4BFSMn8=; b=GcgEFIgtmda7bGFoBS97E+S5uzheqA0tW038HyU9WtaT8icPgMhJcadKjtl+jR/sTi z8aRii77PLl0e8BXHcVLKAudWPojPMBi9KgKEicXIG8SwypAOey1PIfFww7O4X3GFLbY J4dfK58rRYnLrInUPbmwlY/nv66dGDAVWeLzI= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=fWwJBxNCO7lyXmsdSjNMF7Rm0R4eW6Lw/ECpf+SXs4sClcPBwM5S0Du5+yuG9e7+lr PGzlrrYMvOiTY7RjS3yIm9pWXvJIrm1JsKAS4oABWtHmhAmZdNwpADPUczPa816RI3Tq h6DCzE1cXrrA6Au+3RtVNCYIB92n5LBFt5mc0= Original-Received: by 10.231.77.155 with SMTP id g27mr11572870ibk.195.1281007469395; Thu, 05 Aug 2010 04:24:29 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by 10.231.162.4 with HTTP; Thu, 5 Aug 2010 04:24:08 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:128287 Archived-At: On Thu, Aug 5, 2010 at 13:00, Lennart Borgman w= rote: > Yes, it is. I stand corrected. > There were three main things I wanted to work: > - Using the windows keys (or other key, for example shift-lock) as > Emacs META so that Alt key could be freed. Why is that *necessary* for Windows users? > - Getting sticky keys (accessibility) to work. Have you filed a bug report about the specific problems in standard Emacs vs. sticky keys? > - Getting menus to work. The events where handled in wrong order, but > I think it is hard to notice this unless you use the Alt keys to acces > the menus. You discussed this on emacs-devel, but it was a long time ago, so I don't remember which were the specific problems included in "getting menus to work". Sorry. > And once again: I do not consider it a fork. Some people have indeed > asked me to make it a fork but I have stayed here, hoping things > should change. It's a matter of definition. > Please excuse me, Juanma, but I find this a bit annoying. I have > explained this several times before here. There's a difference between "I would like for Emacs to work in such-and-such way", and "Windows users do need such-and-such feature to feel comfortable with Emacs". Obviously all of your changes fall into the first category, but I'm not so sure about the second one. I know of a few seasoned Windows users which apparently do not need them. So stop trying to conflate both categories. And, I'd like to note that I was answering Uday about the second category; I have no saying in what *you* prefer or need for your Emacs. > And I also find it a bit hopeful. Using the right and left windows > keys as Emacs META requires that a low level keyboard hook is used. > Just read the documentation at MS to see that. (I have given link to > it previously.) Yes, but you need to use the Windows key as meta *because* you want to use Alt for alt, and you want to use Alt for alt because some menu troubles, isn't so? And the question is, are really these troubles so big? (And if they are, shouldn't you work to get the keyboard handling patch into Emacs... and then we're back to the same old discussion). > I would be glad if you (and others) did not try to make other people look= silly. I would be glad if you (and others) did not try to make Emacs developers look like old farts that do not accept your changes out of sheer complacency or negligence. =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Juanma