From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Lennart Borgman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: arrow keys vs. C-f/b/n/p Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2010 20:49:04 +0200 Message-ID: References: <87d3w2ncqs.fsf_-_@lola.goethe.zz> <87iq5py7xk.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <83eigclgf0.fsf@gnu.org> <89C16A134A024399A06EFE296DC6916F@us.oracle.com> <83r5kcjkpp.fsf@gnu.org> <83ljakjdv2.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1276369307 23708 80.91.229.12 (12 Jun 2010 19:01:47 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2010 19:01:47 +0000 (UTC) Cc: drew.adams@oracle.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Jun 12 21:01:45 2010 connect(): No such file or directory Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ONVuL-0001nc-6L for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 12 Jun 2010 21:01:42 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53044 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ONVmB-0002Vg-29 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 12 Jun 2010 14:49:51 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=37730 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ONVm2-0001m4-C9 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 12 Jun 2010 14:49:46 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ONVll-00079P-Fa for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 12 Jun 2010 14:49:27 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-gw0-f41.google.com ([74.125.83.41]:37376) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ONVll-00079D-Cy; Sat, 12 Jun 2010 14:49:25 -0400 Original-Received: by gwaa18 with SMTP id a18so1324446gwa.0 for ; Sat, 12 Jun 2010 11:49:24 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:mime-version:received:in-reply-to :references:from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=CUUgDredMhmu4Ur5J+9J1MGm3J068167SkKEqDduvwk=; b=nufJQuLBbwTMQCyWwddijUu8uJbRO3MR42jAYaJmNvmIF97pDc+mxUjf3ZESr+Fd/N EHe0cPlvVQtIpDRpki04z6mdpwfQ5fMqTtOJl1pMYULevW6qwDu4yAszI1nE6YLUkbrl BldMPpYwfl+p2Hy2voAAgWjfkj9GsCLGiJhso= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=sRPYROCwxi/Z7BNBv03lyobDvPdNm/XtXb2E8o0Ls8mgx60t18lldqqBp9ShOU6slz 76K+pNTBrDXmeRnjCtJk/w8UBzfcDt+r4XAZDmI4mE1+pkWzN10vATnPk936HBAlXZJB 6uS7AgzBS8CeCpR3U2L1OY6ojsUkeaILJicmc= Original-Received: by 10.101.205.6 with SMTP id h6mr3177519anq.179.1276368564093; Sat, 12 Jun 2010 11:49:24 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by 10.100.154.15 with HTTP; Sat, 12 Jun 2010 11:49:04 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <83ljakjdv2.fsf@gnu.org> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:125835 Archived-At: On Sat, Jun 12, 2010 at 8:38 PM, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> From: Lennart Borgman >> Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2010 19:25:41 +0200 >> Cc: Eli Zaretskii , emacs-devel@gnu.org >> >> On Sat, Jun 12, 2010 at 7:12 PM, Drew Adams wrot= e: >> > >> > In fact, you might drop "logical" altogether - the word itself doesn't= really >> > help here. If you speak about the order of the chars in the buffer (as= opposed >> > to how they appear) I think that will be clear. >> >> >> From what I read it seems to me that "logical" should mean "human >> reading order", not the buffer character order. > > These two orders are identical. =C2=A0The reason is that people type text > in the order they read it. =C2=A0"Logical order" just means we store text > in the same order as it is read and typed. > >> I guess they are the same here, but that is an implementation detail > > No, it's not an implementation detail. =C2=A0Emacs stores text in files, > and those files also use the logical order. =C2=A0As soon as text is save= d > on a file, the order of characters is not longer internal to Emacs. Is not this is precisely what makes it an implementation detail? > In using logical order, Emacs follows the other applications; doing > that the other way around would mean the files created by Emacs are > incompatible with other applications.