gnu/emacs 2.4 in and out of X

gnu/emacs 2.4 in and out of X

[dsoliver]

Hi group. I've been having an interesting problem, for me anyway. I'm
using emacs in Slackware 10.2 with the 2.6.16.27 kernel. One of the
languages I like to play with is Esperanto. It uses the iso-8895-3 font
set. I finally got characters to display correctly at my terminal
console outside of X. The only thing I need to do is start an
iso-8859-3 terminal for things to work correctly. My language
environment is UTF-8, and I use the Esperanto Post-fix input method.
When I go into X and start Emacs, things work fine until I try to
actually display or enter Esperanto characters. When I do that, I can
no longer see earlier text correctly. In other words the Esperanto
characters are anything but text while ascii type text is normal. I can
stop and restart Emacs to no avail. I leave X and start emacs, and it
retains the same condition as when I was in X. In the end I have to
reboot to get things back the way I want them. I was under the
assumption that gnu/emacs was supposed to work the same for the most
part in a no X environment as with X. I tried starting emacs
-21.4-no-X11 (emacs -nox) in X, and it still didn't work. So my
question is this what is happening? What is hijacking emacs? If I knew,
I might be able to stop that process. Do I need to set something
special in my Bash shell to help emacs in X. Thanks -- Douglas

Re: gnu/emacs 2.4 in and out of X

[Peter Dyballa]

Am 29.08.2006 um 03:12 schrieb dsoliver@earthlink.net:

> Esperanto Post-fix

You could try to use in those file a header line like

	       -*- mode: text; coding: iso-8859-3; -*-

or use a set of buffer-local variable settings like these at the end  
of the file

	%%% Local Variables:
	%%% mode: text
	%%% coding: iso-8859-3
	%%% End:

The menus Options -> Mule -> Set Coding Systems could allow  
exceptions from UTF-8.

There are variables you could set:

	default-buffer-file-coding-system
	file-coding-system-alist

The latter could make files with a particular extension be iso-8859-3  
by default.

--
Greetings

   Pete

In a world without walls and fences, who needs gates and windows?

Re: gnu/emacs 2.4 in and out of X

[dsoliver]

Peter Dyballa wrote:
> Am 29.08.2006 um 03:12 schrieb dsoliver@earthlink.net:
>
> > Esperanto Post-fix
>
> You could try to use in those file a header line like
>
> 	       -*- mode: text; coding: iso-8859-3; -*-
>
> or use a set of buffer-local variable settings like these at the end
> of the file
>
> 	%%% Local Variables:
> 	%%% mode: text
> 	%%% coding: iso-8859-3
> 	%%% End:
>
> The menus Options -> Mule -> Set Coding Systems could allow
> exceptions from UTF-8.
>
> There are variables you could set:
>
> 	default-buffer-file-coding-system
> 	file-coding-system-alist
>
> The latter could make files with a particular extension be iso-8859-3
> by default.
>

Thanks, Pete. I tried all of these things and it still doesn't work.
Once again the problem is that I can work fine in Esperanto while in
console mode not in X. I now can do the same in X. I added the
iso-8859-3 font to my .Xresources file. However, my main problem still
remains. When I leave X and return to the console, emacs no longer can
read any of my files with iso-8858-3 characters. The mode line looks
the same as before I started X, but emacs no longer understands those
modes. I go through the actions of setting up things again. It doesn't
work. I then start X again and things work again. I stop X, things
don't work. So the problem is that when I start X after I have been
successfully working on Esperanto files, I reach a point of no return
with regard to emacs and my run level 3 text console. Emacs appears to
be suddenly broken; I return to X and emacs works again as though
nothing happened. To get my text console to work again, I have to
reboot. I've looked at various logs, but I can't find what is going on.

Thanks again for your help.

Re: gnu/emacs 2.4 in and out of X

[Peter Dyballa]

Am 30.08.2006 um 07:11 schrieb dsoliver@earthlink.net:

> I tried all of these things and it still doesn't work.

I don't believe this! If your copy of GNU Emacs works right it should  
change the left-most part of the mode-line. Since I work in an UTF-8  
based environment I see instead of -uuu: now -uu3: as indicator that  
ISO 8859-3 is used. If you do not see that change you either should  
change your operating system and get one that does not distribute  
crippled Emacsen or compile GNU Emacs yourself from sources.

> Once again the problem is that I can work fine in Esperanto while  
> in console mode not in X.

Yesterday you wrote you were using an Emacs from a no-X package. I  
wonder how you make this an X client! Or is the package's description  
or is your description incorrect? Please check exactly which binary  
named 'emacs' or such you are using in which case and how you make a  
difference between these cases and tell us which libraries these  
binaries are using! (This can also be done by selecting "Send Bug  
Report" from the Help menu or type M-x report-emacs-bug RET.)

> I now can do the same in X. I added the iso-8859-3 font to  
> my .Xresources file. However, my main problem still remains.

Which resources are these?

I don't think that these can help, except you give Emacs a fontset  
with a working declaration of a font for ISO 8859-3 that exists on  
your system and is found by X11. But this would only enable Emacs to  
*display* (or represent) the (right) characters with the right glyphs.

One problem still can be that you saved the Esperanto files in UTF-8.  
So open them (in UTF-8) and then save them in ISO 8859-3. The menu  
Options -> Mule -> Set Coding Systems allows you to load and to save  
in whatever encoding you choose (well, not always, often GNU Emacs  
would explain that this or that character cannot be saved in this or  
that encoding; and in this case you should be careful enough to check  
whether and why Emacs tells the truth).

There are recode or iconv to convert a copy of your file also ...

 From what you see on screen you cannot judge what the contents of  
the underlying file is. One character on screen can be saved in an  
UTF-8 encoded file contents with up to three bytes (octets) (though  
in ISO 8859-3 they are one or two octets). Therefore you need to make  
sure that what you claim is really correct.

> When I leave X and return to the console,

What does that mean? How can you leave X? Without X11 you have  
(almost) nothing to work with.

> emacs no longer can read any of my files with iso-8858-3 characters.

That is not true. Or you made your file write-only. For example owned  
by root and you have no permissions to to open it for reading. I can  
read in GNU Emacs every file I am allowed to open for reading –  
although the contents sometimes looks really strange!

Please correct what you mean with 'cannot read!'

> The mode line looks the same as before I started X, but emacs no  
> longer understands those modes.

This is *that* unusual that I presume you are using two different  
binaries ... of which one *might* be GNU Emacs.

> I go through the actions of setting up things again. It doesn't
> work. I then start X again and things work again. I stop X, things
> don't work.

What is this nonsense of starting and stopping X11?! If you want to  
work with GNU Emacs outside of X11, i.e. not as an X client, you open  
some terminal emulation and launch Emacs with -nw. And of course you  
can have more than one GNU Emacs X client and more than one GNU Emacs  
without own windows running inside terminal emulations and all the  
show the same file, best in read-only, at the same time.

> I've looked at various logs, but I can't find what is going on.

So make sure the basics are right: what is your file's actual  
encoding, what so-called Emacsen are you using, what is the mode-line  
of the Esperanto buffer starting with, what happens with this  
starting sequence when you save in ISO 8859-3 encoding?


In my experience it helps to physically go away from a problem. An  
hour, on a day. Or more. The relief and the brain's better supply  
with more oxygen carrying blood while moving without aid of a car or  
an escalator helps to see the problem from a different view. And in  
this relaxed situation ideas can come up, that bring insights and  
solutions.


I can send you a really ISO 8859-3 encoded file. It starts like this:

	;;; -*- mode: Text; coding: iso-8859-3; -*-
	;
	;       Time-stamp: <2005-07-15 14:20:24 pete>
	;
	;   Southern European, Maltese and Esperanto Glyphs (Latin 3)
	;
	;   oct   dec   hex    UCS2    UTF-8
	;=====================================
	  = 240 = 160 = A0 = U+00A0 =    C2 A0 : NO-BREAK SPACE
	Ħ = 241 = 161 = A1 = U+0126 =    C4 A6 : LATIN CAPITAL LETTER H WITH  
STROKE
	˘ = 242 = 162 = A2 = U+02D8 =    CB 98 : BREVE
	£ = 243 = 163 = A3 = U+00A3 =    C2 A3 : POUND SIGN


--
Greetings

   Pete

Without vi there is only GNU Emacs