From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Qiantan Hong Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Question collaborative editing. Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2020 05:10:22 +0000 Message-ID: References: <87eemuanct.fsf@red-bean.com> <20200924013655.asv2tem25cbwv5et@Ergus> <2ACED303-9A2C-4363-BE56-2E9AF0B8DC85@posteo.net> <20200925002239.fgg3vw2nylltcoyp@Ergus> <219042AC-556D-48CC-8920-82D9BF2BD3AA@aol.com> <3A81FB67-A558-4281-8285-CDD9B01033E3@posteo.net> <1C949FC9-6023-467E-99EC-75D57B08AFB0@gnu.support> <20200929124513.fd745r2txowwbiir@Ergus> <15F9616E-CA9D-40C0-876E-326B9B539225@mit.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_18604F73-5EDE-4F42-8C63-0EFF78B3B084"; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha-256 Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="38518"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Ergus , Fermin , Jean Louis , Noam Postavsky , Emacs developers , Karl Fogel To: Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Oct 27 06:19:10 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kXHO0-0009rd-DW for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 27 Oct 2020 06:19:08 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:36048 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kXHNz-0008Ij-GA for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 27 Oct 2020 01:19:07 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:46100) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kXHFm-0008A7-6g for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 27 Oct 2020 01:10:38 -0400 Original-Received: from outgoing-exchange-3.mit.edu ([18.9.28.13]:39427) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kXHFj-0004yd-Bp for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 27 Oct 2020 01:10:37 -0400 Original-Received: from oc11exedge2.exchange.mit.edu (OC11EXEDGE2.EXCHANGE.MIT.EDU [18.9.3.18]) by outgoing-exchange-3.mit.edu (8.14.7/8.12.4) with ESMTP id 09R5AM6O025395; Tue, 27 Oct 2020 01:10:24 -0400 Original-Received: from oc11expo16.exchange.mit.edu (18.9.4.47) by oc11exedge2.exchange.mit.edu (18.9.3.18) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1293.2; Tue, 27 Oct 2020 01:10:10 -0400 Original-Received: from oc11expo16.exchange.mit.edu (18.9.4.47) by oc11expo16.exchange.mit.edu (18.9.4.47) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1365.1; Tue, 27 Oct 2020 01:10:22 -0400 Original-Received: from oc11expo16.exchange.mit.edu ([18.9.4.47]) by oc11expo16.exchange.mit.edu ([18.9.4.47]) with mapi id 15.00.1365.000; Tue, 27 Oct 2020 01:10:22 -0400 Thread-Topic: Question collaborative editing. Thread-Index: AQHWln3BtV3K1wr9B0aFczVHqkD+n6mrVQKA In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: yes x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [18.18.245.17] Received-SPF: pass client-ip=18.9.28.13; envelope-from=qhong@mit.edu; helo=outgoing-exchange-3.mit.edu X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/10/27 01:10:29 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Windows 7 (Websense crawler) X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:258493 Archived-At: --Apple-Mail=_18604F73-5EDE-4F42-8C63-0EFF78B3B084 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi, now that I=E2=80=99ve almost done with other part I=E2=80=99m looking back into this connectivity problem. I mentioned the idea of messaging over IRC, however after thinking a bit more on that approach, seems that IRC has no reliability guarantee and I=E2=80=99ll have to implement tcp-over-irc.el =E2=80=A6 that already seems like much more work than expected. ICE/STUN looks like the usual way to do the NAT traversal, however I didn=E2=80=99t find any tcp tunnel over ICE/STUN that I can use directly in Emacs. Does any one know any? There=E2=80=99s libnice but it=E2=80=99s a C library, we=E2=80=99ll = either have to write more Emacs C code to use it or wrap it in a cli tool providing tcp tunneling... > On Sep 29, 2020, at 12:29 PM, Stefan Monnier = wrote: >=20 >>> 1) On one hand such services require some servers (to work like = google >>> spreadsheet) and need to be provided somehow... something difficult = as I >>> don't think gnu or fsf have resources to maintain a service like = that >>> and provide it. >> CRDT should do it. >=20 > I think CRDT make no difference to the problem referred to here, which > is that two machines, each behind its own firewall will have = difficulty > talking to each other unless they go through some external server (at > least to set up the initial connection). There are *partial* = solutions in > the form of ICE/STUN. >=20 >=20 > Stefan >=20 --Apple-Mail=_18604F73-5EDE-4F42-8C63-0EFF78B3B084 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExDzANBglghkgBZQMEAgEFADCABgkqhkiG9w0BBwEAAKCCA70w ggO5MIIDIqADAgECAhAaql39NsO1qLVjkS2hl517MA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBCwUAMGwxCzAJBgNVBAYT AlVTMRYwFAYDVQQIEw1NYXNzYWNodXNldHRzMS4wLAYDVQQKEyVNYXNzYWNodXNldHRzIEluc3Rp dHV0ZSBvZiBUZWNobm9sb2d5MRUwEwYDVQQLEwxDbGllbnQgQ0EgdjEwHhcNMjAwODAzMDEyNDIz WhcNMjEwODAxMDEyNDIzWjCBoTELMAkGA1UEBhMCVVMxFjAUBgNVBAgTDU1hc3NhY2h1c2V0dHMx LjAsBgNVBAoTJU1hc3NhY2h1c2V0dHMgSW5zdGl0dXRlIG9mIFRlY2hub2xvZ3kxFTATBgNVBAsT DENsaWVudCBDQSB2MTEVMBMGA1UEAxMMUWlhbnRhbiBIb25nMRwwGgYJKoZIhvcNAQkBFg1xaG9u Z0BNSVQuRURVMIIBIjANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQEFAAOCAQ8AMIIBCgKCAQEAylUlEQdK4BSXKzoGh6As CKN/TpLmC0kjhPdxUKMj1/86Xl6GDCla4h95uISDOWVAKdu3cIlA8m9zRLT2jNEIkt1DVpXP6c9h y8RRyfJm0qlrvr6tsHi5AmO4Li6s2dEGaTxbakPL6vEn7ZYr86t5orq56nubki77Z8ZvRv9/fWdF bF/YBNGDayLNk0NbXIEQdCHiz1l+bxfw+GHHRmdOge3MKWSg463+GGMdxtLQ61AbtR2vm47FIJBt c0X6ptcInWUg4Nf/9vSNGl6KvREvfbEWKCT6TfL5ncIFlitf6ZWKue2PZ4ULFfIQ3/7EsEk03xxr S7sTOy7e2dbPboe/WwIDAQABo4GhMIGeMAkGA1UdEwQCMAAwEQYJYIZIAYb4QgEBBAQDAgWgMB0G A1UdJQQWMBQGCCsGAQUFBwMEBggrBgEFBQcDAjALBgNVHQ8EBAMCBeAwHQYDVR0OBBYEFDeb9Jlj XSm+y0CD872IhzRDIGv1MDMGA1UdHwQsMCowKKAmoCSGImh0dHA6Ly9jYS5taXQuZWR1L2NhL21p dGNsaWVudC5jcmwwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQELBQADgYEApBTx4tBbD5rQ+bNGd/Z3OBV07qFsm5QHNg0+ 6lxJ3j7q5zMMq35o6y5cBIhcFG6t+MFqJIdERZ3EprDturyqozQsIBMHFnqh+iZcMg0uQyssEqKZ hrzIdw8GuY4Z6jNewdGy5mwwG9yjpEbzWWgdofSM5rnezZz7EvCQu9ilt1sxggNDMIIDPwIBATCB gDBsMQswCQYDVQQGEwJVUzEWMBQGA1UECBMNTWFzc2FjaHVzZXR0czEuMCwGA1UEChMlTWFzc2Fj aHVzZXR0cyBJbnN0aXR1dGUgb2YgVGVjaG5vbG9neTEVMBMGA1UECxMMQ2xpZW50IENBIHYxAhAa ql39NsO1qLVjkS2hl517MA0GCWCGSAFlAwQCAQUAoIIBkzAYBgkqhkiG9w0BCQMxCwYJKoZIhvcN AQcBMBwGCSqGSIb3DQEJBTEPFw0yMDEwMjcwNTEwMjJaMC8GCSqGSIb3DQEJBDEiBCCqTNRi4OVr byjaARil/0F7uOeWB3FqaI1CcBzgDOpu6TCBkQYJKwYBBAGCNxAEMYGDMIGAMGwxCzAJBgNVBAYT AlVTMRYwFAYDVQQIEw1NYXNzYWNodXNldHRzMS4wLAYDVQQKEyVNYXNzYWNodXNldHRzIEluc3Rp dHV0ZSBvZiBUZWNobm9sb2d5MRUwEwYDVQQLEwxDbGllbnQgQ0EgdjECEBqqXf02w7WotWORLaGX nXswgZMGCyqGSIb3DQEJEAILMYGDoIGAMGwxCzAJBgNVBAYTAlVTMRYwFAYDVQQIEw1NYXNzYWNo dXNldHRzMS4wLAYDVQQKEyVNYXNzYWNodXNldHRzIEluc3RpdHV0ZSBvZiBUZWNobm9sb2d5MRUw EwYDVQQLEwxDbGllbnQgQ0EgdjECEBqqXf02w7WotWORLaGXnXswDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEBBQAEggEA M9DqpKPNVnwChy4plxYp+1klWMA8u1oHBt2v2hS/fjD91auE2kpgYjhrTt7YNOYa+hPtlZND+JfJ 7JofzYaVjOcjHixwM2+GEo+gMU242UDGfN3pPatpqjT0xYDcK2/iz6HAmJunildh/U7pybPDaily xfYOa6MelAjnq88WqJ0cKbdsxGe7b6K98ywBSLuApsVgzhjme9he1Wwp6jHYvuMf0MY5kRO7B7gb RjV8awwCHvBgKy20FpBuVoZybohZGj3HqDc0VhnPQht9EieIk2mIwtP/y8FqMITAdhLmyNCKqQa/ 7jTrLBNTvD9kAxb3VNb1zmTqEzmeOVkfJWWIPgAAAAAAAA== --Apple-Mail=_18604F73-5EDE-4F42-8C63-0EFF78B3B084--