From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Qiantan Hong Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Question collaborative editing. Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2020 17:04:09 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20200924013655.asv2tem25cbwv5et@Ergus> <2ACED303-9A2C-4363-BE56-2E9AF0B8DC85@posteo.net> <20200925002239.fgg3vw2nylltcoyp@Ergus> <219042AC-556D-48CC-8920-82D9BF2BD3AA@aol.com> <3A81FB67-A558-4281-8285-CDD9B01033E3@posteo.net> <1C949FC9-6023-467E-99EC-75D57B08AFB0@gnu.support> <20200929124513.fd745r2txowwbiir@Ergus> <87blho7af9.fsf@red-bean.com> <20200929215849.zg4wzytbrwx2b7ih@Ergus> <84B86B7C-81F0-42DF-894C-BF577E4B3D6E@mit.edu> <83a6x7js6y.fsf@gnu.org> <83eemji6e8.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_1F8541FB-2781-4B4B-882F-4457B4BDBECA"; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha-256 Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="33684"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Ergus , Fermin , Jean Louis , Noam Postavsky , Emacs developers , Karl Fogel , Stefan Monnier To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Sep 30 19:12:08 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kNfeC-0008dQ-Bm for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 30 Sep 2020 19:12:08 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:59858 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kNfeB-0004R2-B1 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 30 Sep 2020 13:12:07 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:43650) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kNfWs-00061y-NQ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 30 Sep 2020 13:04:34 -0400 Original-Received: from outgoing-exchange-5.mit.edu ([18.9.28.59]:46677) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kNfWm-00008n-Ch; Wed, 30 Sep 2020 13:04:34 -0400 Original-Received: from oc11exedge1.exchange.mit.edu (OC11EXEDGE1.EXCHANGE.MIT.EDU [18.9.3.17]) by outgoing-exchange-5.mit.edu (8.14.7/8.12.4) with ESMTP id 08UH4M43026279; Wed, 30 Sep 2020 13:04:25 -0400 Original-Received: from oc11expo16.exchange.mit.edu (18.9.4.47) by oc11exedge1.exchange.mit.edu (18.9.3.17) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1293.2; Wed, 30 Sep 2020 13:03:30 -0400 Original-Received: from oc11expo16.exchange.mit.edu (18.9.4.47) by oc11expo16.exchange.mit.edu (18.9.4.47) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1365.1; Wed, 30 Sep 2020 13:04:09 -0400 Original-Received: from oc11expo16.exchange.mit.edu ([18.9.4.47]) by oc11expo16.exchange.mit.edu ([18.9.4.47]) with mapi id 15.00.1365.000; Wed, 30 Sep 2020 13:04:09 -0400 Thread-Topic: Question collaborative editing. Thread-Index: AQHWkA+RtV3K1wr9B0aFczVHqkD+n6lzGC2+gAByx1WAA75ZgIABUIuAgAAtCoCAAKrvgIAEEd+AgAGGOACAABFAAIAAe9OAgABIs4CAAA5xVYAAjDuAgAAchYCAAKh2a4AAZX0A///GIeWAAE52AIAAAPKA In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: yes x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [18.18.245.17] Received-SPF: pass client-ip=18.9.28.59; envelope-from=qhong@mit.edu; helo=outgoing-exchange-5.mit.edu X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/09/30 13:01:05 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Windows 7 (Websense crawler) X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:256775 Archived-At: --Apple-Mail=_1F8541FB-2781-4B4B-882F-4457B4BDBECA Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 >> You don't need buffer-modification hooks, you can use other existing >> mechanisms. Emacs knows that buffer text was changed even if the >> modification hooks were inhibited. > That=E2=80=99s a workaround, but I=E2=80=99m not sure if it can = capture user intent > (i.e. it gives operation-wise information rather than just a diff = between > versions of buffer). If it can=E2=80=99t then we will need to = implement both > update based on modification-hooks and change state of the buffer, > which is an additional impl/maintenance burden. I see the difference as, if implemented as a C library that keep a = buffer and synchronize with emacs, then this synchronization *must* be absolutely correct, otherwise it mess up any operation on the buffer. However if the CRDT is kept on the emacs buffer itself, it=E2=80=99s = much more tolerant to untracked text in the buffer.= --Apple-Mail=_1F8541FB-2781-4B4B-882F-4457B4BDBECA Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExDzANBglghkgBZQMEAgEFADCABgkqhkiG9w0BBwEAAKCCA70w ggO5MIIDIqADAgECAhAaql39NsO1qLVjkS2hl517MA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBCwUAMGwxCzAJBgNVBAYT AlVTMRYwFAYDVQQIEw1NYXNzYWNodXNldHRzMS4wLAYDVQQKEyVNYXNzYWNodXNldHRzIEluc3Rp dHV0ZSBvZiBUZWNobm9sb2d5MRUwEwYDVQQLEwxDbGllbnQgQ0EgdjEwHhcNMjAwODAzMDEyNDIz WhcNMjEwODAxMDEyNDIzWjCBoTELMAkGA1UEBhMCVVMxFjAUBgNVBAgTDU1hc3NhY2h1c2V0dHMx LjAsBgNVBAoTJU1hc3NhY2h1c2V0dHMgSW5zdGl0dXRlIG9mIFRlY2hub2xvZ3kxFTATBgNVBAsT DENsaWVudCBDQSB2MTEVMBMGA1UEAxMMUWlhbnRhbiBIb25nMRwwGgYJKoZIhvcNAQkBFg1xaG9u Z0BNSVQuRURVMIIBIjANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQEFAAOCAQ8AMIIBCgKCAQEAylUlEQdK4BSXKzoGh6As CKN/TpLmC0kjhPdxUKMj1/86Xl6GDCla4h95uISDOWVAKdu3cIlA8m9zRLT2jNEIkt1DVpXP6c9h y8RRyfJm0qlrvr6tsHi5AmO4Li6s2dEGaTxbakPL6vEn7ZYr86t5orq56nubki77Z8ZvRv9/fWdF bF/YBNGDayLNk0NbXIEQdCHiz1l+bxfw+GHHRmdOge3MKWSg463+GGMdxtLQ61AbtR2vm47FIJBt c0X6ptcInWUg4Nf/9vSNGl6KvREvfbEWKCT6TfL5ncIFlitf6ZWKue2PZ4ULFfIQ3/7EsEk03xxr S7sTOy7e2dbPboe/WwIDAQABo4GhMIGeMAkGA1UdEwQCMAAwEQYJYIZIAYb4QgEBBAQDAgWgMB0G A1UdJQQWMBQGCCsGAQUFBwMEBggrBgEFBQcDAjALBgNVHQ8EBAMCBeAwHQYDVR0OBBYEFDeb9Jlj XSm+y0CD872IhzRDIGv1MDMGA1UdHwQsMCowKKAmoCSGImh0dHA6Ly9jYS5taXQuZWR1L2NhL21p dGNsaWVudC5jcmwwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQELBQADgYEApBTx4tBbD5rQ+bNGd/Z3OBV07qFsm5QHNg0+ 6lxJ3j7q5zMMq35o6y5cBIhcFG6t+MFqJIdERZ3EprDturyqozQsIBMHFnqh+iZcMg0uQyssEqKZ hrzIdw8GuY4Z6jNewdGy5mwwG9yjpEbzWWgdofSM5rnezZz7EvCQu9ilt1sxggNDMIIDPwIBATCB gDBsMQswCQYDVQQGEwJVUzEWMBQGA1UECBMNTWFzc2FjaHVzZXR0czEuMCwGA1UEChMlTWFzc2Fj aHVzZXR0cyBJbnN0aXR1dGUgb2YgVGVjaG5vbG9neTEVMBMGA1UECxMMQ2xpZW50IENBIHYxAhAa ql39NsO1qLVjkS2hl517MA0GCWCGSAFlAwQCAQUAoIIBkzAYBgkqhkiG9w0BCQMxCwYJKoZIhvcN AQcBMBwGCSqGSIb3DQEJBTEPFw0yMDA5MzAxNzA0MDlaMC8GCSqGSIb3DQEJBDEiBCD+DhUvNPST NCJvj0QlCtM78b8ck+CZWw2pg2SCBQy+iTCBkQYJKwYBBAGCNxAEMYGDMIGAMGwxCzAJBgNVBAYT AlVTMRYwFAYDVQQIEw1NYXNzYWNodXNldHRzMS4wLAYDVQQKEyVNYXNzYWNodXNldHRzIEluc3Rp dHV0ZSBvZiBUZWNobm9sb2d5MRUwEwYDVQQLEwxDbGllbnQgQ0EgdjECEBqqXf02w7WotWORLaGX nXswgZMGCyqGSIb3DQEJEAILMYGDoIGAMGwxCzAJBgNVBAYTAlVTMRYwFAYDVQQIEw1NYXNzYWNo dXNldHRzMS4wLAYDVQQKEyVNYXNzYWNodXNldHRzIEluc3RpdHV0ZSBvZiBUZWNobm9sb2d5MRUw EwYDVQQLEwxDbGllbnQgQ0EgdjECEBqqXf02w7WotWORLaGXnXswDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEBBQAEggEA CrqHUZZAeQ8mrRDR6HCIGEA0lB50bZX+MN+UUn+2CLnm7jn8m02vKdnRhLcwW2j9j4JGXobzeCyd 1RFm+ilgPNhiJaktRxBKVEjDXlwpBaHzJbyfPxD8GPzVftm6OYquCtuiuT9f3/A+YxOB00zylAoX 4UuAokdC5hOZDNlbSxuob4JtmwSWAW4E/dph5OIf+D4XtO8zDUOTNEmkZa4YZOg1rSJT+TdMAoPi io/E1MNIHwVCDTV7DZtsi2Dhm2IiiCZYSeGv709jH1BDbAB94UMo6xnmiXvr4Wqg6+HA1mZKh79X i/92ZJ2quSWK7mSZ8W5xYrSpmVUInqW5PU6eXAAAAAAAAA== --Apple-Mail=_1F8541FB-2781-4B4B-882F-4457B4BDBECA--