From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: chad Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: C-g crash in C-x C-f (OSX Lion) Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2011 16:03:52 -0800 Message-ID: References: <4EEB48B2.9090602@swipnet.se> <83liqc1tac.fsf@gnu.org> <83fwgk1atk.fsf@gnu.org> <4EEBE0DC.1050803@cs.ucla.edu> <4EEF5DF5.3030506@swipnet.se> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1251.1) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_D0CD195A-90AF-45A6-8FD9-2CD344BFF5C8" X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1324339458 8939 80.91.229.12 (20 Dec 2011 00:04:18 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2011 00:04:18 +0000 (UTC) To: Rene@Kyllingstad.com, Emacs developers Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Dec 20 01:04:10 2011 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([140.186.70.17]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1RcnBi-0002jx-9j for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 20 Dec 2011 01:04:10 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:58035 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RcnBh-0000dc-Mz for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 19 Dec 2011 19:04:09 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]:33631) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RcnBf-0000dW-Lu for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 19 Dec 2011 19:04:08 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RcnBe-0006Ns-8H for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 19 Dec 2011 19:04:07 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-qy0-f169.google.com ([209.85.216.169]:61506) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RcnBe-0006Nl-1n for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 19 Dec 2011 19:04:06 -0500 Original-Received: by qcsd17 with SMTP id d17so3904025qcs.0 for ; Mon, 19 Dec 2011 16:04:05 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=from:mime-version:content-type:subject:date:in-reply-to:to :references:message-id:x-mailer; bh=V/7rKKzG2uNTr9aswu5fHTqSkoXMWXfGSXQ+AzIkv7k=; b=W7ZSHO4pDCs+yt+hXUrXS6ef+KKOyPFqPWEhmNSpTtYb0JSdb01CjM8KD93524THf9 eZZmme/1zNlDCHQGB4ghHozslAuM7D2+yd4zCF+omfYPZ9CbTG2VubsR5SqcMg2JQe85 CT+Q9RaYIrAzOlsco46Y2H6rfxFsj/bnzZkwc= Original-Received: by 10.229.136.196 with SMTP id s4mr6588256qct.103.1324339445068; Mon, 19 Dec 2011 16:04:05 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: from [10.0.0.131] ([12.198.236.170]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id dk9sm43414230qab.0.2011.12.19.16.03.57 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Mon, 19 Dec 2011 16:04:04 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1251.1) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-Received-From: 209.85.216.169 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:146859 Archived-At: --Apple-Mail=_D0CD195A-90AF-45A6-8FD9-2CD344BFF5C8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 On Dec 19, 2011, at 9:25 AM, Ren=E9 Kyllingstad wrote: >=20 > This is alas a common misunderstanding about the Mac port. >=20 > http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2007-11/msg00424.html As Dan mentioned, these messages from 4 years ago don't paint a very = accurate current picture. Adding to the discussion he linked, I'll say = that the current situation is even worse than the 2007 messages imply; = in Lion (aka macosx 10.7), the current development tools won't build a = gui Carbon app, and the situation is only getting worse. The low-level = functionality continues to work in a sort of zombie legacy model, but it = seems clear that the situation will only deteriorate over time. Meanwhile, the Mac port is missing multi-tty, bidi editing, gnutls, and = lexbind. It doesn't have integrated themes, packages, Org, or CEDET (to = name just a few). It doesn't help GNUstep users at all. If xembed = catches on, it's unlikely that it'll ever reach the Mac port. =20 I think it's great that you have a version of Emacs that you like and = that works for you. Everyone jumps off the development train at some = point, and just uses tools that work for them -- I'll hazard that this = is even more common among Emacs-on-macosx users (speaking for myself, = emacs is more or less the only train that I'm still `on'). I tried out = the Mac port for a little while, and it seemed great as a usable emacs. What it's not, though, is a developing, growing emacs. While my emacs = needs are pretty modest lately, I find the Mac port is missing too many = things that I've come to expect from the leading edge. That doesn't = make it a bad emacs, but it does mean that it is (clearly, IMHO) not the = emacs for everyone. This periodic assertion by happy Mac port users = that some one/group is being silly/stupid/stubborn by not simply = adopting the Mac port as the One True emacs ignores the desires of those = of us who use the development head of GNU emacs directly in an effort to = improve emacs itself (a group that I'll assert is a majority of the = people reading emacs-devel). =20 The Mac port is great, but it's only great if you don't mind this (IMO = colossal) caveat: On Nov 28, 2011, at 2:45 AM, YAMAMOTO Mitsuharu wrote: > * A few users asked me about the status/plans of the Mac port based > on Emacs 24. Currently I don't have any development branches for > that. Hope that helps, *Chad --Apple-Mail=_D0CD195A-90AF-45A6-8FD9-2CD344BFF5C8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1

This is = alas a common misunderstanding about the Mac = port.


As Dan mentioned, these = messages from 4 years ago don't paint a very accurate current picture. =  Adding to the discussion he linked, I'll say that the current = situation is even worse than the 2007 messages imply; in Lion (aka = macosx 10.7), the current development tools won't build a gui Carbon = app, and the situation is only getting worse.  The low-level = functionality continues to work in a sort of zombie legacy model, but it = seems clear that the situation will only deteriorate over = time.

Meanwhile, the Mac port is missing = multi-tty, bidi editing, gnutls, and lexbind.  It doesn't have = integrated themes, packages, Org, or CEDET (to name just a few). =  It doesn't help GNUstep users at all. If xembed catches on, it's = unlikely that it'll ever reach the Mac port. =  

I think it's great that you have a = version of Emacs that you like and that works for you.  Everyone = jumps off the development train at some point, and just uses tools that = work for them -- I'll hazard that this is even more common among = Emacs-on-macosx users (speaking for myself, emacs is more or less the = only train that I'm still `on').  I tried out the Mac port for a = little while, and it seemed great as a usable = emacs.

What it's not, though, is a developing, = growing emacs. While my emacs needs are pretty modest lately, I find the = Mac port is missing too many things that I've come to expect from the = leading edge.  That doesn't make it a bad emacs, but it does mean = that it is (clearly, IMHO) not the emacs for everyone.  This = periodic assertion by happy Mac port users that some one/group is being = silly/stupid/stubborn by not simply adopting the Mac port as the One = True emacs ignores the desires of those of us who use the development = head of GNU emacs directly in an effort to improve emacs itself (a group = that I'll assert is a majority of the people reading emacs-devel). =  

The Mac port is great, but it's only = great if you don't mind this (IMO colossal) = caveat:

On Nov 28, 2011, at 2:45 AM, = YAMAMOTO Mitsuharu wrote:

* A few users = asked me about the status/plans of the Mac port = based
   on Emacs 24.  Currently I don't have any = development branches = for
   that.

Hope = that helps,
*Chad