From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Drew Adams" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: tool-bars - broken again Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2010 11:59:50 -0700 Message-ID: References: <17A106BDF5AA40A9B41416AE7E8F13CB@us.oracle.com><871vbk6w0m.fsf@stupidchicken.com><5155443AC1FD4EF28DFB1F1BFFF412F1@us.oracle.com> <87k4p9lsdy.fsf@stupidchicken.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1278356480 14117 80.91.229.12 (5 Jul 2010 19:01:20 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2010 19:01:20 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 'Emacs-Devel devel' To: "'Chong Yidong'" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Jul 05 21:01:19 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OVqut-0004tq-1y for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 05 Jul 2010 21:01:19 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37572 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1OVqus-0005te-MY for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 05 Jul 2010 15:01:18 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=55048 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1OVqum-0005tZ-By for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 05 Jul 2010 15:01:13 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OVquk-000461-UI for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 05 Jul 2010 15:01:12 -0400 Original-Received: from rcsinet10.oracle.com ([148.87.113.121]:61662) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OVquk-00045v-M9 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 05 Jul 2010 15:01:10 -0400 Original-Received: from acsinet15.oracle.com (acsinet15.oracle.com [141.146.126.227]) by rcsinet10.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.2) with ESMTP id o65J16nm007502 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 5 Jul 2010 19:01:08 GMT Original-Received: from acsmt354.oracle.com (acsmt354.oracle.com [141.146.40.154]) by acsinet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.1) with ESMTP id o65Eu6XK023677; Mon, 5 Jul 2010 19:01:05 GMT Original-Received: from abhmt001.oracle.com by acsmt353.oracle.com with ESMTP id 398919781278356387; Mon, 05 Jul 2010 11:59:47 -0700 Original-Received: from dradamslap1 (/10.175.252.105) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Mon, 05 Jul 2010 11:59:47 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <87k4p9lsdy.fsf@stupidchicken.com> Thread-Index: AcscbCQ5bDdbU43tR/G+cq6ih18iTQABqQcQ X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5931 X-Source-IP: acsmt354.oracle.com [141.146.40.154] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090204.4C322BF2.01A5:SCFMA4539814,ss=1,fgs=0 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:126796 Archived-At: > > A user might well want the default frame setting to have a tool bar. > > Yet s?he might also, at some point during a session (or in some > > particular context, via code), want to turn off tool bars - and not > > just for the current frames but also for future frames. And then > > later, in a different context, s?he might want to turn tool > > bars back on again. > > A convincing argument. The solution is for `tool-bar-mode' and > `menu-bar-mode' to change `default-fame-alist' if, and only > if, there is an existing `tool-bar-lines' or `menu-bar-lines' > entry. I've checked in such a change. Thank you. That will definitely help. But (without looking at your change) that does not handle the case where code or a user command removes the entry from `default-frame-alist'. Dunno how important that use case is, but I can imagine it. For that use case this would still be an incompatible change and should probably be documented. But your change sounds OK to me (haven't tried it). In general (other things being equal etc.), it is good to keep the property that a missing `default-frame-alist' entry acts the same as an entry that holds the default value or a neutral value (for some sense of "neutral"). In this case, an entry of `(tool-bar-lines . 0)' would not be equivalent to a missing entry. Sometimes the behavior would be the same, and sometimes it would be different. That in itself is not a good thing, but other considerations might override the value of retaining this equivalence property in this case. Again, what you describe sounds OK by me. But please document the design intention with comments in the code (e.g. the bug #, if the bug thread discusses the design change) and wrt Info and doc strings etc.