From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Daniel Colascione Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Proposal: new default bindings for winner and windmove Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2024 10:28:05 -0400 Message-ID: References: <7133BE83-064B-43A4-A193-61376605222C@dancol.org> <055E6E92-6971-409E-A106-7E0C64FEF856@dancol.org> <87bk3r22x5.fsf@yahoo.com> <746FE961-37C5-4387-8274-7D90908EE2D6@dancol.org> <8734p3219c.fsf@yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="6406"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: K-9 Mail for Android Cc: Alan Mackenzie , Stefan Kangas , Stefan Monnier , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Po Lu Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Jun 23 16:28:51 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1sLOD5-0001Q1-Ap for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 23 Jun 2024 16:28:51 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sLOCg-0004t8-Nb; Sun, 23 Jun 2024 10:28:26 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sLOCd-0004sC-HE for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 23 Jun 2024 10:28:24 -0400 Original-Received: from dancol.org ([2600:3c01:e000:3d8::1]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sLOCb-0000rd-Nd for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 23 Jun 2024 10:28:23 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=dancol.org; s=x; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID: References:In-Reply-To:Subject:CC:To:From:Date:Sender:Reply-To:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe: List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=xNmeSChm1/y2etKNpc8L2vj/xPigY3BngOHxTQY4h74=; b=fsvSKxhwWElLO9I7mjt23fmoDK V58KceZmiGi5/l/Lo+kV5xbkmCKmaZWrIB/LWB3P1WiXs4xEljGI/cxwkYNaq/togVf3HMWyzkscV I6MVEWZL57wP29WGhTi4vHELY44/y+qf4nbds/2xMEU1QjAxC9wZbegQQX9AXf0UjIIU0S+/Z66nW CaMKwu/oSNf74eejoZe9i7rcnPpRnhNcWdmfEHtZVN9FiHC4vz3SqfC07AAoyp6pw2bJ7JP9FZSGn rvt+vB6aQuPZAjZDkECsTegsi1YS7DJ2MYG+b5+0eRkZ9wIcH+cjijJWbtLHfCX7siFa/PkBAp/QZ IxGOEhdA==; Original-Received: from 2603-9001-4203-1ab2-44c9-c16c-aa21-95a3.inf6.spectrum.com ([2603:9001:4203:1ab2:44c9:c16c:aa21:95a3]:38398 helo=[IPv6:::1]) by dancol.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (Exim 4.94.2) (envelope-from ) id 1sLOCK-0004y5-NH; Sun, 23 Jun 2024 10:28:04 -0400 In-Reply-To: <8734p3219c.fsf@yahoo.com> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2600:3c01:e000:3d8::1; envelope-from=dancol@dancol.org; helo=dancol.org X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:320538 Archived-At: On June 23, 2024 10:15:59 AM EDT, Po Lu wrote: >Daniel Colascione writes: > >> I don't trust that many such users exist, and even if they did, >> providing default keybindings for these keys will not somehow override >> the keybindings you install yourself=2E > >Sure=2E And more users stand to benefit from Windmove commands if they >are bound to C-x 4, than if they were required to bind such commands >themselves, commands defined by a package that is already of marginal >interest? What extraordinary logic! Well, yes? It's of marginal interest because it's not discoverable=2E It's= nevertheless useful=2E More people would use the package if it were discov= erable=2E I don't think the logic is terribly complicated here=2E >> This attitude is why Doom Emacs exists=2E A live software project is on= e >> that changes=2E A dead one prioritizes stasis over user experience=2E > >Since Doom Emacs exists and is Free Software, why are users not at >liberty to install it and bid farewell to reaction and "stasis" in Emacs >development? And why is it a matter for our consideration whether we >fail or succeed in competing with them? Any mention of "competition" >with an Emacs package is already a contradiction in terms=2E It continues to astound me that people want to put many hours into a proje= ct yet insist they're indifferent between its success and failure=2E >> Nothing we're talking about here will disturb your custom >> keybindings=2E Your experience will work just as it did before=2E The o= nly >> difference is that users who don't have custom bindings for the arrow >> keys under C-x 4 will get windmove functionality if they don't >> customize the bindings=2E > >Spoken like a true intellectual, in the face of a real-life example to >the contrary=2E I'm waiting for such an example=2E You've bound C-x 4 down to something=2E= Fine=2E That binding would continue to work if Emacs came with C-x 4 alrea= dy bound to something else=2E That's how defaults work=2E Can you please ex= plain the actual problem that providing these new default bindings would ca= use for your workflow?