From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Glenn Morris Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: /srv/bzr/emacs/trunk r112347: * doc/lispintro/emacs-lisp-intro.texi (defcustom, defun, simplified-beginning-of-buffer, defvar, Building Robots, Review, save-excursion): `defun' and `defcustom' are now macros rather than special forms. (Bug#13853) Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2013 14:07:33 -0400 Message-ID: <9yli8bzriy.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> References: <87obd8rnk1.fsf@yandex.ru> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1366567658 5180 80.91.229.3 (21 Apr 2013 18:07:38 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2013 18:07:38 +0000 (UTC) Cc: xfq , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Dmitry Gutov Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Apr 21 20:07:41 2013 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1UTyfr-0001H5-Qn for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 21 Apr 2013 20:07:39 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:47631 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UTyfr-0007R1-8N for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 21 Apr 2013 14:07:39 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:47051) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UTyfo-0007Qw-HB for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 21 Apr 2013 14:07:37 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UTyfn-0003x3-D6 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 21 Apr 2013 14:07:36 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:56274) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UTyfn-0003wz-9Q for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 21 Apr 2013 14:07:35 -0400 Original-Received: from rgm by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UTyfl-00017D-6Z; Sun, 21 Apr 2013 14:07:33 -0400 X-Spook: Vince Foster North Korea condor Putin Kosovo M-14 Etacs X-Ran: GYDF5d;"`j)weBJYkeA$c|cl\?xD9jqVXmHOX,K`Qm8,w6;H(l']h{b>]_>Ga!Ho^"xEHw X-Hue: cyan X-Attribution: GM In-Reply-To: <87obd8rnk1.fsf@yandex.ru> (Dmitry Gutov's message of "Sun, 21 Apr 2013 18:00:30 +0400") User-Agent: Gnus (www.gnus.org), GNU Emacs (www.gnu.org/software/emacs/) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:159087 Archived-At: The problem I saw with these changes, and the reason I did not fix it at the time it was reported, is that previously "special form" was defined (in a simple way using only a couple of sentences) before it was used to refer to any particular function. Now the term "macro" is used well before it is defined. So the manual no longer makes sense when read in order, which matters for an introduction IMO. It needs more work that just replacing "special form" by "macro" in a few places. Also, the menu is now inconsistent: * defun:: The @code{defun} special form. etc > -(Another special form, @code{defcustom}, is designed for variables > -that people customize. It has more features than @code{defvar}. > -(@xref{defcustom, , Setting Variables with @code{defcustom}}.) Why was this removed? It could have been simply changed to "Another function,... ". The reference to defcustom is the important thing, not the details of whether it is a special form or macro. PS Please keep commit log lines to ~ 80 chars in length. The first line should be a summary that can stand alone. Eg "Minor emacs-lisp-intro updates related to special forms"