From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Mike Carifio Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#15539: [PATCH] Setting user-emacs-directory Date: Sun, 8 Sep 2019 10:54:17 -0400 Message-ID: <9eebba34-d22e-ad12-63ff-182fc043a881@carifio.org> References: <09f0b6af-213f-cc04-336b-00850ba0f3bf@cs.ucla.edu> <8ad91615-e621-7a10-72e2-03277676bd3a@cs.ucla.edu> <499f2cba-39b3-afe1-7039-fb4c3cf73ea0@cs.ucla.edu> <1154ad53-058c-53fa-3f4d-7026a6ec5b2b@cs.ucla.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Info: blaine.gmane.org; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:195.159.176.226"; logging-data="24010"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@blaine.gmane.org" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.8.0 Cc: Alexis , =?UTF-8?Q?Fran=C3=A7ois_?= =?UTF-8?Q?F=C3=A9votte?= , Max , Evgeny Roubinchtein , Noam Postavsky , John Wiegley , Oleh Krehel , 15539@debbugs.gnu.org, Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Paul Eggert , Glenn Morris Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Sep 08 16:55:14 2019 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1i6yau-00065e-5z for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sun, 08 Sep 2019 16:55:12 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:49108 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1i6yat-0004lh-1O for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sun, 08 Sep 2019 10:55:11 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:42087) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1i6yam-0004lF-HO for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 08 Sep 2019 10:55:05 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1i6yal-0007Jc-68 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 08 Sep 2019 10:55:04 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]:58445) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1i6yal-0007JW-34 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 08 Sep 2019 10:55:03 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1i6yak-0000Y6-C5 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 08 Sep 2019 10:55:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Mike Carifio Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 08 Sep 2019 14:55:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 15539 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: patch Original-Received: via spool by 15539-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B15539.15679544672067 (code B ref 15539); Sun, 08 Sep 2019 14:55:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 15539) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Sep 2019 14:54:27 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39033 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1i6yaB-0000XH-Ex for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 08 Sep 2019 10:54:27 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-qk1-f193.google.com ([209.85.222.193]:33131) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1i6ya8-0000X4-GU for 15539@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 08 Sep 2019 10:54:25 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-qk1-f193.google.com with SMTP id x134so10463248qkb.0 for <15539@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sun, 08 Sep 2019 07:54:24 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=carifio-org.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding:content-language; bh=JTioUqVbr8p5oDXXXNp4Fw93VUssrk55qH1WOmMz5SQ=; b=eSp8depJFKLLs+DIHpWOxX7zZV1Xfg61OHMrw+CSMIP0XDJlDp/dKGTqeCw1xPSwFP 8TG9ZhBr6i5+NaxfMJYI1qZGxdRVoea/sNDP3R9DEUoigwtDHlKdxYbSdSJt58j7RXeM FPQWhuoal9i/UBPPkY+JZqkAO5zrM2jPSs/+foROdykzE2MBI6HtlSyTGRCHKIz2TxZX QeyI6/UyatrgfkVX3dtoMGd53CHZuCTzXDrU0ozp6zhMMqDv5QgykMFVxkRwOzbeQY/z Gtmh6EktLkEYiUwgo4SAKlU/VrH+YM672BJNREdJaGYbXzfiNObByLLjQuc9+8syHy1I 2DJA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding :content-language; bh=JTioUqVbr8p5oDXXXNp4Fw93VUssrk55qH1WOmMz5SQ=; b=bAopJniQF8Zh2rcUZSkg15RBsWzRYsBgBUzTIK1zlkckN7t3izsm10byY2+q+IudEy VlkGgkAJyfM3DkuWPu/1RbElk94dpzHsNbrBGMMzdWyzjpfSNXsrAPZ/3HEcfHTrw+PK BG/sQw2YUGm14ilg9+uL1+Hlh+lal+5KUQgIfrOxKZFFk/Mnt5GyRYHQY0c413+H80no MSPpV0xhi5Rb+BaI+0IwIm4nUpa2WanA6MgqCTXeEl6JmJi8mkBStBJhl78Tr6SPh+4O 8Ii/0hSueL9pGJiW4nwVRUO1PI2GkA8dSfbRxH2DfYGB4rUl3lRRnNGqe/zZ7R07n3cW x7kw== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXzA64QW2gbJK8T0tvEz3DOrsheuMwROMm2Owxign9IgeCyQsiu dW3uabC+p54nThTxK2P0sts6Uw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqylzJODiWySrgIIZ7kTu0j0ZPrEZwsQmYU04F6LE6ddhtUL1+O1bZEjEYfVwj4wVdYC7NRcvw== X-Received: by 2002:a37:5a06:: with SMTP id o6mr5935265qkb.279.1567954458953; Sun, 08 Sep 2019 07:54:18 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from [192.168.0.5] (cpe-67-246-228-200.rochester.res.rr.com. [67.246.228.200]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id f5sm1427852qkg.9.2019.09.08.07.54.17 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 08 Sep 2019 07:54:18 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: Content-Language: en-US X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 209.51.188.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:166301 Archived-At: As the OP approximately six years ago, I neglected to add the "use-case" I wanted --user-emacs-directory for, namely to experiment with ~/.emacs.d/init.el including installing new packages via elpa. I still think there's a need, especially as the number of useful packages have grown and they can interact. I currently use the "symlink" approach when I want to start adding new packages and configurations. It's useful to return to a "known good state" if my init.el hacking careens off the tracks. Since there was already a _variable_ user-emacs-directory, I thought I was just asking to set it early at the command line. It seemed to be analogous to --load for an emacs file or --user for another user's init file. I didn't realize it had a "read-only" flavor. Yes, this switch adds another knob, but I happen to think its a useful knob and is consistent with --load and --user, both of which allow the user to designate a different init file at the command line. Redefining HOME at the command line and then "setting it back" inside init.el seems convoluted. It could also potentially break site-start.el if some code there relied on the right binding of HOME. Admittedly that's a farfetched scenario, but not impossible either. Sure would be confusing to debug if you didn't know what to look for. All the "do it yourself" strategies (other than symlink) also force the user to deeply understand the details of the init process, e.g. what switches to throw to override various features. So if the criticism is "yet another knob" I would say you are pushing people to construct homegrown solutions ... repeatedly. The XDG patch will let emacs adhere to the XDG desktop conventions and you can designate the user-emacs-directory implicitly as well, a two-for-one special. Not every platform follows the XDG conventions, but I personally mostly use linux, so I'm less concerned with those.