From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: RE: Single quotes in Info Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2015 07:11:05 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <9ee0c895-a178-40e1-b1c8-ed2b97071c6b@default> References: <87twzhgk84.fsf@wmi.amu.edu.pl> <83lhksshdm.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1422112293 8019 80.91.229.3 (24 Jan 2015 15:11:33 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2015 15:11:33 +0000 (UTC) To: Eli Zaretskii , help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Jan 24 16:11:29 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1YF2Mw-0002Ul-IW for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 24 Jan 2015 16:11:26 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:35229 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YF2Mv-0007rJ-R9 for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 24 Jan 2015 10:11:25 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:39621) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YF2Mj-0007rE-Pb for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 24 Jan 2015 10:11:14 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YF2Mi-0006qa-JI for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 24 Jan 2015 10:11:13 -0500 Original-Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com ([141.146.126.69]:42492) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YF2Md-0006q5-1j; Sat, 24 Jan 2015 10:11:07 -0500 Original-Received: from acsinet21.oracle.com (acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id t0OFB5cD021263 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 24 Jan 2015 15:11:06 GMT Original-Received: from userz7021.oracle.com (userz7021.oracle.com [156.151.31.85]) by acsinet21.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id t0OFB5hZ006712 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 24 Jan 2015 15:11:05 GMT Original-Received: from abhmp0005.oracle.com (abhmp0005.oracle.com [141.146.116.11]) by userz7021.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id t0OFB404018932; Sat, 24 Jan 2015 15:11:04 GMT In-Reply-To: <83lhksshdm.fsf@gnu.org> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.8.2 (807160) [OL 12.0.6691.5000 (x86)] X-Source-IP: acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.4.x-2.6.x [generic] X-Received-From: 141.146.126.69 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:102239 Archived-At: > Anyway, we should revive bug #13131, and provide an easier solution > for this particular issue. I agree. For this particular (search) issue. This is conceptually related to, but it need not necessarily be extended to, discussion about being able to Isearch abstracting from diacritical marks etc. (E.g. bug #13041: http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D13041.) IOW, being able to easily specify equivalence classes of chars for search (and other) purposes, and preferably being able to quickly choose whether to make use of them (this one or that one) - e.g., as we can do now for case-sensitivity (`a' ~ `A'). The easily-search-for-curly-or-not-curly problem reminds us that Info is not only about display: One needs to be able to easily search for (and perhaps even type directly) the chars that are displayed. Chars ` and ' correspond to keys on most keyboards. =E2=80=98 and =E2=80=99 do not. Some of those who propose curly-quote etc. display as a "modernization" of Emacs might not take sufficiently into account how Emacs users interact with the text. "Modern" appearance is nice (even important), but Emacs is not *only* about display. > > How to get back to ASCII quotes? >=20 > I think you need to regenerate the Info docs, using the levers we did > in Emacs 24 to disallow Unicode quotes. Or customize 'makeinfo' to > produce ASCII characters instead (search for OPEN_QUOTE_SYMBOL in the > Texinfo manual), and then regenerate the docs. Or install an older > 'makeinfo', which didn't produce these quotes, and then regenerate the > docs. As I know you are aware, Eli, this return-to-the-source is not a real solution. (Ideally) Emacs users themselves should be able (somehow) to choose which chars are used for such display. Remaking Info should not be our only (i.e., final) answer, even if it is such today.