From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#24549: 25.1; Customizing group `text' Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2016 07:49:09 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <9eab3611-2ed6-422b-93bc-4270ef1b6082@default> References: <8aaf30c2-ceb2-4803-9e2e-cd10ad8a3802@default> <837f9xct9z.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1474987831 16471 195.159.176.226 (27 Sep 2016 14:50:31 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2016 14:50:31 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 24549@debbugs.gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Sep 27 16:50:23 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1boti6-0002sP-DJ for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 27 Sep 2016 16:50:18 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:51580 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1boti4-0004rk-T7 for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 27 Sep 2016 10:50:16 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:52404) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1botht-0004og-C2 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 27 Sep 2016 10:50:07 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bothq-0001W7-16 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 27 Sep 2016 10:50:05 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.43]:59340) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bothp-0001Vq-UE for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 27 Sep 2016 10:50:01 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bothp-00050E-Oc for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 27 Sep 2016 10:50:01 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2016 14:50:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 24549 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 24549-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B24549.147498776119178 (code B ref 24549); Tue, 27 Sep 2016 14:50:01 +0000 Original-Received: (at 24549) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Sep 2016 14:49:21 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37297 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bothA-0004zD-T4 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 27 Sep 2016 10:49:21 -0400 Original-Received: from userp1040.oracle.com ([156.151.31.81]:43105) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1both9-0004z1-OL for 24549@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 27 Sep 2016 10:49:20 -0400 Original-Received: from userv0021.oracle.com (userv0021.oracle.com [156.151.31.71]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id u8REnDV4017442 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 27 Sep 2016 14:49:13 GMT Original-Received: from aserv0122.oracle.com (aserv0122.oracle.com [141.146.126.236]) by userv0021.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id u8REnCv5006808 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 27 Sep 2016 14:49:12 GMT Original-Received: from abhmp0014.oracle.com (abhmp0014.oracle.com [141.146.116.20]) by aserv0122.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id u8REnB02000545; Tue, 27 Sep 2016 14:49:12 GMT In-Reply-To: <837f9xct9z.fsf@gnu.org> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9 (901082) [OL 12.0.6753.5000 (x86)] X-Source-IP: userv0021.oracle.com [156.151.31.71] X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 208.118.235.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:123722 Archived-At: > The group's _symbol_ is 'wp', "Text" is only its label (a.k.a. :tag): >=20 > (defgroup wp nil > "Support for editing text files." > :tag "Text" > :group 'emacs) Ah yes. I should have checked that. IMHO, this is a gotcha. Emacs itself, especially, should not do this by default. If there is no good way to create an alias for group `text' here, then perhaps we should at least create another group `text', which inherits from this. The problem (gotcha) should be taken care of in some way. > The ELisp manual says: >=20 > =E2=80=98:tag LABEL=E2=80=99 > Use LABEL, a string, instead of the item=E2=80=99s name, to label = the item > in customization menus and buffers. *Don=E2=80=99t use a tag whic= h is > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > substantially different from the item=E2=80=99s real name; that wo= uld cause > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^= ^ > confusion.* > ^^^^^^^^^^^ >=20 > (a.k.a. "do as I say, not as I do"). Exactly. =20 > Unfortunately, this is a very old problem, and the 'wp' thingy is by > now probably spread too much, including outside of Emacs, for us to > even consider renaming the symbol itself. See above. I don't think there is a way to alias it (and then deprecate `wp'. But at least we can make a group `text' that DTRT. > So I think one band-aid solution could be: >=20 > . mention the group's symbol in its doc string, so that it could be > seen in the Custom buffer; Yes, but a user using `M-x customize' and then trying to drill down, will not necessarily take time to read that doc. > . extend customize-read-group so it also accepts group tags, not > just their symbols. That's not a bad idea. But in that case, we would essentially get near-duplicate names for those groups that actually followed the instructions and used a similar (but not identical) name for the tag label. IOW, a tag that is more explicit (e.g. longer) or is an abbreviation of the group name (i.e., shorter) would be present for completion, along with the group name itself. That's not a big problem, IMO. This could indeed be a solution. > Any better ideas? See above. We can create another group, `text', which inherits from `wp'. Emacs itself could move toward using group `text' everywhere. The doc for group `text' could say that `wp' is deprecated (even though there is no code-enforcement via warning etc.). IOW, we can (1) make a group `text' that behaves essentially like `wp' and (2) let users know that `wp' is considered deprecated. Yes, this would mean that both `text' and `wp' would appear for completion. But unlike your proposed solution, this would be a one-off bug fix, and not a generalization that applies to every use of a tag. A priori - i.e., until I hear more pros & cons, I think this would be a better solution that what you suggested. What do you think? One way or another, we need, I think, to make `text' work.