From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Daniele Nicolodi Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: What improvements would be truly useful? Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2018 22:45:25 -0700 Message-ID: <9e3a1c0b-325f-29c6-eb78-dd4b0106e17b@grinta.net> References: <87inaiss6l.fsf@web.de> <6FCF6ACA-4F29-4B6B-BE9D-D7130C6E9495@gnu.org> <87fu5moe4c.fsf@web.de> <877eqyocro.fsf@web.de> <83zi3uz4nb.fsf@gnu.org> <0b1dd3fa-e0b0-ed20-a256-dd92d1c1826f@dancol.org> <8bc3c4c7-dfc7-987a-95e7-bd309e2326c6@cs.ucla.edu> <03118DC0-39DA-4AB5-980E-A33809B9A5EE@raeburn.org> <86578165-1b41-e75c-7180-84d8edefc44b@grinta.net> <83o9k2s4xw.fsf@gnu.org> <65dafef7-3e1f-ba67-6717-c369033533a3@grinta.net> <831sgxrvsq.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1520401468 14180 195.159.176.226 (7 Mar 2018 05:44:28 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2018 05:44:28 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.13; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.6.0 Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Mar 07 06:44:23 2018 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1etRsC-0002QM-7h for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 07 Mar 2018 06:44:20 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:59788 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1etRuD-0003Pf-6H for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 07 Mar 2018 00:46:25 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:50053) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1etRtQ-0003PW-7L for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 07 Mar 2018 00:45:37 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1etRtP-0007ju-A5 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 07 Mar 2018 00:45:36 -0500 Original-Received: from zed.grinta.net ([109.74.203.128]:44118) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1etRtL-0007hx-7L; Wed, 07 Mar 2018 00:45:31 -0500 Original-Received: from black.local (c-98-245-165-154.hsd1.co.comcast.net [98.245.165.154]) (Authenticated sender: daniele) by zed.grinta.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3E402E0F8E; Wed, 7 Mar 2018 05:45:27 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=grinta.net; s=mail; t=1520401527; bh=I/KK2ixc5vt70UXShS1MorLC2EgQ7AN/swq6yMgeRKQ=; h=Subject:To:Cc:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=EOkHCh3IqsyGnZuld3+nh013pEsgaMHEFr0FEusEUrPBVrdEAfdGreawPbX4TzEkl F2w7It7FdAyG9psDdNLEwVSN5/e3OWIsGINXCqjO6dOTBY6xZGikxOkN8ZugUky0p6 c9mJBoHGzduShSy01REUy/BGmGYTHQKaUuy/VJy0= In-Reply-To: <831sgxrvsq.fsf@gnu.org> Content-Language: en-US X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 109.74.203.128 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:223399 Archived-At: On 06/03/2018 09:52, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> From: Daniele Nicolodi >> Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2018 23:32:28 -0700 >> >> I'm far from being familiar with the Emacs codebase thus I may be >> reporting something that it is not completely true, however: Emacs was >> born as a console only application, the graphical user interface seems >> to be duct taped on. >=20 > I object to the "duct taped" derogation, and invite you to study the > relevant code before you form your opinions. Besides, Emacs still > supports text-mode terminals, and moreover, supports text-mode and GUI > frames in the same session (a very important feature), so some degree > of compatibility to a console is still a requirement. I didn't intend "duct taped" as derogatory. I meant to say that it has been added in a way that works and is effective, but it is not elegant or nice to look at. I'm an experimental physicist and all complex experiments have some literal duct tape solution that makes them work, that was often supposed to be a quick fix to get things going, and that ends to survive generations of PhD students. >> Also, GTK support seems a bit of an hack that >> requires layering violations (reaching down to the X primitives) to >> work. Being GTK the only modern toolkit supported on Linux (as far as= I >> know) and the only way to get nartive Wayland support, some radical >> cleanup in that area would probably be a good thing. >=20 > It's true that GTK support was added in a not very clean way, but I > don't think we can throw away support for the other toolkits just yet, > because they are still being used. I don't think that cleaning up the GTK support requires removing support for any other toolkit, and I'm far from suggesting something like that. Cheers, Dan