From: rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com>
To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
Subject: Re: Icicles [was: shell command completion gone]
Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2011 21:10:55 -0800 (PST) [thread overview]
Message-ID: <9df7037c-e4d3-4a1b-9fcf-f130853de421@a10g2000vby.googlegroups.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: mailman.2.1294788149.12535.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
On Jan 12, 4:21 am, "Drew Adams" <drew.ad...@oracle.com> wrote:
> For example, I do not set Icicles default values to the values that I
> myself use. I set them to what I expect will be most useful for most
> people.
>
> You would (or perhaps would not) be surprised at the number of people
> who have different preferences and think that a default behavior
> should be changed. Users sometimes do not think, like maintainers do,
> in terms of other users - they sometimes think that what is most
> natural and most useful is what _they_ happen to prefer. As users we
> are probably all guilty of that. So there is always someone who
> thinks that some default behavior is a bad choice.
>
> I aim to have the default settings provide a good combination overall
> for using Icicles. Things are designed to fit together and take good
> advantage of what Icicles has to offer (synergy). Think of this
> approach to defaults as being "what is best for using Icicles" - for
> most use cases. That's the aim, anyway.
>
> That's not the same as throwing everything at you so you are forced to
> discover features by accident, as gotchas. The latter might appear to
> be the case, but it is not. I think a lot about the defaults, and I
> try to document things well, including how to turn things off and how
> to customize.
I of course appreciate that as the developer's/envisioner's view.
But just see what its like from that of a wannabe user (like but not
restricted to yours truly :-)
He has a stark 0 1 infinity choice:
0. No icicles
1. Use icicles with defaults as given
infinity. tweak and understand every available option
How could this be improved?
I'm putting together 2 ideas
1. Ive heard Alan Mackenzie use the word 'emacsicality' for a
collection of (semi)coherent customizations
2. viper mode has a zillion customizations collected into 5 'levels'
So the viper solution for icicles would be to have say 3-4 levels of
icicles ranging from plain vanilla emacs to expert.
But there is a less technological solution which will certainly be
easier on Drew but likely also on the typical emacs user:
Put up (on the wiki maybe) a bunch of customization-bundles
corresponding to common learning paths.
So the vanilla-user learning path would be as follows (One could
replace vanilla by ido and iswitch if desired; you get a few more
bundles)
bundle-0. All keys behave as in vanilla emacs; icicles functionality
available in a standard place such as a menu
bundle-1. A few key (sorry for the pun) concepts are understood and
their corresponding keys are bound; but ONLY those keys
bundle-2. More concepts and more keys
Stop at 3 or 4! [And thats not factorial!]
> Thanks for your kind words, Le and Prad.
I have taught programming for nearly 25 years and the most valuable
learning Ive got (which Ive unfortunately mostly wasted) is beginner
mistakes. If I had a chance to go back I would collect the best
'mistakes'.
That is to say you need people like Le and Prad (and hopefully myself)
as control-points on the learning-bezier-curve.
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2011-01-12 5:10 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 26+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2011-01-07 6:45 shell command completion gone prad
2011-01-07 16:14 ` Drew Adams
2011-01-08 4:02 ` prad
[not found] ` <mailman.0.1294459339.1472.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2011-01-08 17:37 ` rusi
2011-01-08 22:11 ` prad
2011-01-11 4:54 ` Le Wang
2011-01-11 23:21 ` Icicles [was: shell command completion gone] Drew Adams
2011-01-12 7:17 ` Icicles prad
2011-01-12 15:45 ` Icicles Drew Adams
[not found] ` <mailman.2.1294788149.12535.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2011-01-12 5:10 ` rusi [this message]
2011-01-12 15:45 ` Icicles [was: shell command completion gone] Drew Adams
2011-01-14 7:30 ` Rustom Mody
2011-01-14 9:04 ` Drew Adams
[not found] ` <mailman.16.1294995951.15276.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2011-01-14 9:34 ` rusi
2011-01-14 16:48 ` Drew Adams
2011-01-15 1:32 ` Darth Emacs
2011-01-16 19:56 ` Drew Adams
2011-01-19 0:29 ` Darth Emacs
2011-01-17 3:59 ` rusi
2011-01-17 17:35 ` Drew Adams
[not found] ` <mailman.13.1294990220.15276.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2011-01-14 7:33 ` rusi
2011-01-21 4:12 ` rusi
2011-01-21 5:18 ` Le Wang
2011-01-21 15:48 ` Drew Adams
[not found] ` <mailman.10.1295587091.21031.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2011-01-21 5:24 ` rusi
2011-01-21 15:33 ` Drew Adams
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