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From: Drew Adams <drew.adams@oracle.com>
To: Juri Linkov <juri@linkov.net>, martin rudalics <rudalics@gmx.at>
Cc: 35887@debbugs.gnu.org, npostavs@gmail.com, Bob Proulx <bob@proulx.com>
Subject: bug#35887: 26.1; global-eldoc-mode minibuffer noise is very annoying
Date: Mon, 27 May 2019 15:31:33 -0700 (PDT)	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <9d84f6c2-a319-495d-a967-25c1c66cee5d@default> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <87woibbpxb.fsf@mail.linkov.net>

> I turn ‘global-eldoc-mode’ off too, but I think it should be enabled
> by default to demonstrate to newbies that Emacs has the same feature
> that their IDEs have.

Fair enough.  But on the flip side, better that a
newbie should learn, early, that there is much more
to Emacs than first meets the eye.  And learn, early
on, how to discover for herself such non-default
features.

I disagree, in general (yes, abstractly, and such
things should really be decided mostly case by case),
with the idea of showing things initially just to be
sure users notice them.

That's not a strong reason.  We sometimes hear it
espoused also as a reason for turning on some shiny
new behavior: so users will notice it.  Not a great
reason, on its own.  We have NEWS for that (and
Sacha's tangents newsletter and...
___

As for discoverability (a larger question) -

1. There's little substitute now for a newbie learning
   the help keys (`C-h`...) at the outset.

2. Menus can help.

3. Google etc. help (word-of-mouth in our era).

4. But Emacs could offer more aids to discoverability.
   Instead of turning things on by default so users
   can easily see they exist, we'd be better off adding
   more discovery help.  (Emacs is, after all, the
   self-documenting editor.)





  reply	other threads:[~2019-05-27 22:31 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 21+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2019-05-24 19:51 bug#35887: 26.1; global-eldoc-mode minibuffer noise is very annoying Bob Proulx
2019-05-24 20:47 ` npostavs
2019-05-24 21:35   ` Bob Proulx
2019-05-24 22:38     ` Dmitry Gutov
2019-05-24 23:24       ` Bob Proulx
2019-05-25  2:21     ` Noam Postavsky
2019-05-25  6:19       ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-05-26 11:51         ` Basil L. Contovounesios
2019-05-25  8:00     ` martin rudalics
2019-05-27 20:30       ` Juri Linkov
2019-05-27 22:31         ` Drew Adams [this message]
2019-05-28 15:54           ` Basil L. Contovounesios
2019-06-04  8:21         ` martin rudalics
2019-06-04 13:30           ` Dmitry Gutov
2019-06-05 21:06             ` Juri Linkov
2019-05-27  3:23 ` Drew Adams
2020-08-16 10:16 ` Stefan Kangas
2020-08-16 14:32   ` Drew Adams
2020-08-16 16:12     ` Kévin Le Gouguec
2020-08-16 14:39   ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-01 12:27     ` Stefan Kangas

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