From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: chad Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: C-g crash in C-x C-f (OSX Lion) Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2011 17:40:07 -0800 Message-ID: <9E637EAB-A0C5-421B-9CCA-71C41442AF52@gmail.com> References: <4EEB48B2.9090602@swipnet.se> <83liqc1tac.fsf@gnu.org> <83fwgk1atk.fsf@gnu.org> <4EEBE0DC.1050803@cs.ucla.edu> <4EEF5DF5.3030506@swipnet.se> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1251.1) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_5E31B43A-CFCC-480D-90A2-C175E1F6EAF7" X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1324345224 8092 80.91.229.12 (20 Dec 2011 01:40:24 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2011 01:40:24 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Emacs developers , Rene@Kyllingstad.com To: YAMAMOTO Mitsuharu Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Dec 20 02:40:20 2011 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([140.186.70.17]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Rcogi-0000nH-Ol for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 20 Dec 2011 02:40:17 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:50494 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Rcogi-00062s-1I for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 19 Dec 2011 20:40:16 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]:33435) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Rcoge-00062k-I2 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 19 Dec 2011 20:40:13 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Rcogd-0003AZ-8R for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 19 Dec 2011 20:40:12 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-qy0-f169.google.com ([209.85.216.169]:35699) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Rcogd-0003AB-1D for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 19 Dec 2011 20:40:11 -0500 Original-Received: by qcsd17 with SMTP id d17so3942016qcs.0 for ; Mon, 19 Dec 2011 17:40:10 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=subject:mime-version:content-type:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :message-id:references:to:x-mailer; bh=tg2d0uZApQT9gOVZLEeDd6W7XwM6oHx7+Mq/+W0QZss=; b=XTEZDYsoHSH8ZE5xxXZ6d6s9jv0iY9deJlizvdzCnRpl4hCLUDVdUCeLQFmeaLuKp0 IQ4LBzDHLlaCAvMtuGey+Z0PbpGZm+CHq4ZsuuvAMujEhU7eyBXq2o7X26p4mdfGRBcm bOYVvQwesY8fq0qnm/ehLxUhhjd07nGp/FCg0= Original-Received: by 10.229.75.144 with SMTP id y16mr20897qcj.87.1324345210306; Mon, 19 Dec 2011 17:40:10 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: from [10.0.0.131] ([12.198.236.170]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id z1sm274394qao.1.2011.12.19.17.40.08 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Mon, 19 Dec 2011 17:40:09 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1251.1) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-Received-From: 209.85.216.169 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:146862 Archived-At: --Apple-Mail=_5E31B43A-CFCC-480D-90A2-C175E1F6EAF7 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 On Dec 19, 2011, at 5:12 PM, YAMAMOTO Mitsuharu wrote: >=20 > Which is in your mind when you speak "low-level functionality in > Carbon", C APIs in general or the Carbon framework (i.e., > /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/)? The latter does not > include Core Foundation, Core Graphics, Core Text, or Image I/O, all > of which are C APIs supported and legitimate even in iOS. I'll admit that my mac development experience ended about ten years ago, = but my reading of the notes from then and now both suggest that Carbon = is a Toolbox replacement/bridge tool, and that it is being phased out = over time. I believe that your information is more up-to-date than mine, = but my reading of the notes on Carbon seems to state clearly that the = entire thing is deprecated and will eventually go away. I trust you = when you say that this is not a practical concern for the Mac port = today. Do you believe that it is also not a practical concern for = main-line Emacs over the next few years? > [=85] I guess whether the NS port is sufficient or not > would depend on the personal usage pattern. Especially, those who > heavily use flyspell-mode would find the NS port insufficient. Several years ago I moved from being primarily a programmer to primarily = writing (structured) english text. I use flyspell-mode and org-mode = more or less constantly (a quick look suggest that I've written at least = 150k words using this combination this year).=20 What problems do you see with flyspell-mode that I don't see? Maybe I = don't know what I'm missing. :-) > Also, I think I've been making rather active and valuable feedbacks in > both bug reporting and bug fixing especially on the platform-specific > part of Emacs, for the bugs I found through the development of the Mac > port. Absolutely! I did not intend anything I said to imply otherwise, or to = impugn your valuable contributions to Emacs. I simply meant to point out = that the Mac port is intentionally and, it seems, permanently `behind' = the leading edge of Emacs development. Since it does not appear that = that situation will ever change, it is (at least somewhat) = counter-productive to recommend to emacs developers on the emacs-devel = mailing list that developers switch to an older (but stable) fork, = rather than work on improving the mainline. > YAMAMOTO Mitsuharu > mituharu@math.s.chiba-u.ac.jp *Chad= --Apple-Mail=_5E31B43A-CFCC-480D-90A2-C175E1F6EAF7 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252

Which is in your = mind when you speak "low-level functionality in
Carbon", C APIs in = general or the Carbon framework = (i.e.,
/System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/)?  The = latter does not
include Core Foundation, Core Graphics, Core Text, or = Image I/O, all
of which are C APIs supported and legitimate even in = iOS.

I'll admit that my mac = development experience ended about ten years ago, but my reading of the = notes from then and now both suggest that Carbon is a Toolbox = replacement/bridge tool, and that it is being phased out over time. I = believe that your information is more up-to-date than mine, but my = reading of the notes on Carbon seems to state clearly that the entire = thing is deprecated and will eventually go away.  I trust you when = you say that this is not a practical concern for the Mac port today. Do = you believe that it is also not a practical concern for main-line Emacs = over the next few years?

[=85] I = guess whether the NS port is sufficient or = not
would depend on the = personal usage pattern.  Especially, those who
heavily use = flyspell-mode would find the NS port = insufficient.

Several years = ago I moved from being primarily a programmer to primarily writing = (structured) english text.  I use flyspell-mode and org-mode more = or less constantly (a quick look suggest that I've written at least 150k = words using this combination this = year). 

What problems do you see with = flyspell-mode that I don't see?  Maybe I don't know what I'm = missing. :-)

Also, I think I've = been making rather active and valuable feedbacks in
both bug = reporting and bug fixing especially on the platform-specific
part of = Emacs, for the bugs I found through the development of the = Mac
port.

Absolutely! =  I did not intend anything I said to imply otherwise, or to impugn = your valuable contributions to Emacs. I simply meant to point out that = the Mac port is intentionally and, it seems, permanently `behind' the = leading edge of Emacs development.  Since it does not appear that = that situation will ever change, it is (at least somewhat) = counter-productive to recommend to emacs developers on the emacs-devel = mailing list that developers switch to an older (but stable) fork, = rather than work on improving the = mainline.

=     YAMAMOTO Mitsuharu
mituharu@math.s.chiba-u.ac.j= p

*Chad
= --Apple-Mail=_5E31B43A-CFCC-480D-90A2-C175E1F6EAF7--