From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Drew Adams" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: Key bindings proposal Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2010 09:09:45 -0700 Message-ID: <9B6519017AC2466090BA05B2ED7DB0D3@us.oracle.com> References: <19534.1494.627000.357123@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <176EDAD3B9E54E39870FA3F84A5DDF3C@us.oracle.com> <19542.56658.583000.394397@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <19544.1015.468000.280770@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <19546.30901.687000.971249@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <19546.47167.15000.439215@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <87fwys7qao.fsf@telefonica.net> <87hbj8qvd9.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87iq3k68ye.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <874of466rj.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <87pqxsbrie.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <19556.28233.750000.798692@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <19557.2279.703000.707743@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <4E5480A100044AD58D82F16054CA3CF9@us.oracle.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1281715853 29028 80.91.229.12 (13 Aug 2010 16:10:53 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2010 16:10:53 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 'Uday S Reddy' , 'Chong Yidong' , emacs-devel@gnu.org, 'Juanma Barranquero' To: "'Lennart Borgman'" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Aug 13 18:10:50 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OjwqF-00022B-AK for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 13 Aug 2010 18:10:49 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57310 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ojwq3-0005nt-1J for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 13 Aug 2010 12:10:35 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=33078 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ojwpj-0005jP-Br for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 13 Aug 2010 12:10:20 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Ojwpe-0001R3-OR for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 13 Aug 2010 12:10:11 -0400 Original-Received: from rcsinet10.oracle.com ([148.87.113.121]:53598) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Ojwpe-0001Qf-Ii for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 13 Aug 2010 12:10:10 -0400 Original-Received: from rcsinet15.oracle.com (rcsinet15.oracle.com [148.87.113.117]) by rcsinet10.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.2) with ESMTP id o7DGA0Fp024715 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 13 Aug 2010 16:10:02 GMT Original-Received: from acsmt355.oracle.com (acsmt355.oracle.com [141.146.40.155]) by rcsinet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.1) with ESMTP id o7DBatV4005121; Fri, 13 Aug 2010 16:10:00 GMT Original-Received: from abhmt001.oracle.com by acsmt353.oracle.com with ESMTP id 494234841281715797; Fri, 13 Aug 2010 09:09:57 -0700 Original-Received: from dradamslap1 (/10.159.218.59) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Fri, 13 Aug 2010 09:09:55 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5931 Thread-Index: Acs69/OxM/janS0WRy6zMSaaRtz/LQAB5hlA X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:128617 Archived-At: > > I would even guess that most Windows users never use the=20 > > ALT key in a Windows-specific way (except for CONTROL-ALT-DELETE) > > and never use the Window key at all. =A0For one thing, most are not > > programmers (another guess), and most interact with Windows using > > the mouse most of the time, not the keyboard. =A0And > > my guess is that _very_ few (proportionally) users of=20 > > Windows use menu accelerators. >=20 > Here is a lesson from MS on using MS Word: > http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/word-help/ > work-with-the-keyboard-RZ006078589.aspx?section=3D9 >=20 > It mentions explicitly Alt+Letter. So what? No one said that menu accelerators do not _exist_. And no one said that Microsoft has no doc describing them. I say that my guess is that the percentage of Windows users that = regularly use - or even who have _ever_ tried to use - menu accelerators is very, very, = _very_ small. It simply is not a large part of the global Windows experience. = That's my guess. Do do guess differently? Do you guess that _most_ Windows users use = menu accelerators? Or even 10% of Windows users? Or 1%? What's your guess? Do your mother, sister, cousin, neighbor, doctor, dentist, car mechanic, = and grocer (who all use Windows no doubt) use Windows menu accelerators? = Have they even heard of such a thing? No way. That's _my_ guess. Would they care to use accelerators if you told them about their = existence and how terribly handy they are? Point them to the URL you passed along as = proof of the importance. See how quickly they adopt this feature that you feel = is so vital to Windows. No way. That's _my_ guess.