* bug#335: bug tracking system leads to duplicate replies appearing @ 2008-05-29 22:31 ` Joe Wells 2008-05-30 3:20 ` Don Armstrong ` (2 more replies) 0 siblings, 3 replies; 9+ messages in thread From: Joe Wells @ 2008-05-29 22:31 UTC (permalink / raw) To: bug-gnu-emacs I've noticed that most of the replies appearing in the gnu.emacs.bug newsgroup seems to be duplicated. This duplication is also occurring in the bug-gnu-emacs mailing list (although most of the web interfaces to the mailing list detect and hide the duplicates). I believe this is due to messages being addressed to both bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org and XYZ@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com where XYZ is the bug number. When someone follows up, their message gets sent to bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org twice, because everything sent to XYZ@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com will also be sent onward to bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org. You can see for yourself in the mailing list archives. As just one example, in the file at <URL:ftp://lists.gnu.org/bug-gnu-emacs/2008-05>, you can see two messages with the message ID <jwvwslkzpun.fsf-monnier+emacsbugreports@gnu.org>, which are both copies of a single message that Stefan Monnier posted in reply to a bug report I posted earlier. Interestingly, by the time these two copies show up in the gnu.emacs.bug USENET newsgroup, they have the two different message IDs <mailman.12118.1211578329.18990.bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org> and <mailman.12121.1211578334.18990.bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>. By the way, it seems at first glance that none of these are the original message ID of Stefan's message, but instead these are fresh message IDs chosen by the bug tracking software and mailing list software. At least the two message IDs that begin with “mailman” are definitely fresh. These pieces of software should *not* be making up fresh message IDs. Changing message IDs prevents duplicate filtering software from working, and also leads to fractured message threads where the reading software can not tell what is a reply to what. I hope this bug report is helpful in tracking down and stopping this useless and confusing duplication of messages. -- Joe -- Heriot-Watt University is a Scottish charity registered under charity number SC000278. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
* bug#335: bug tracking system leads to duplicate replies appearing 2008-05-29 22:31 ` bug#335: bug tracking system leads to duplicate replies appearing Joe Wells @ 2008-05-30 3:20 ` Don Armstrong [not found] ` <mailman.12419.1212118311.18990.bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org> 2010-01-22 20:37 ` bug#335: marked as done (bug tracking system leads to duplicate replies appearing) Emacs bug Tracking System 2 siblings, 0 replies; 9+ messages in thread From: Don Armstrong @ 2008-05-30 3:20 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Joe Wells, 335 On Thu, 29 May 2008, Joe Wells wrote: > I believe this is due to messages being addressed to both > bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org and XYZ@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com where XYZ > is the bug number. When someone follows up, their message gets sent > to bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org twice, because everything sent to > XYZ@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com will also be sent onward to > bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org. This is because people are using reply-to-all, instead of reply-to-list or reply-to. I can resolve this by discarding duplicate message ids, but thats more of a sledgehammer. Far better would be for people to stop being silly and using reply-to-all, and instead use reply-to-list or reply-to, both of which are set properly and behave correctly. > Interestingly, by the time these two copies show up in the > gnu.emacs.bug USENET newsgroup, they have the two different message > IDs <mailman.12118.1211578329.18990.bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org> and > <mailman.12121.1211578334.18990.bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>. > > By the way, it seems at first glance that none of these are the > original message ID of Stefan's message, but instead these are fresh > message IDs chosen by the bug tracking software and mailing list > software. At least the two message IDs that begin with “mailman” are > definitely fresh. These pieces of software should *not* be making up > fresh message IDs. Debbugs has nothing to do with these message IDs; it adds Resent-Message-Id: for the messages which it forwards, and retains the original Message-Id:. Most likely this is something to do with the mailman list-to-news gateway. Don Armstrong -- To steal ideas from one person is plagiarism; to steal from many is research. -- Steven Wright http://www.donarmstrong.com http://rzlab.ucr.edu ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
[parent not found: <mailman.12419.1212118311.18990.bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>]
* bug#335: bug tracking system leads to duplicate replies appearing [not found] ` <mailman.12419.1212118311.18990.bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org> @ 2008-05-30 10:27 ` Joe Wells 2008-05-30 13:38 ` Stefan Monnier 0 siblings, 1 reply; 9+ messages in thread From: Joe Wells @ 2008-05-30 10:27 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 335 Don Armstrong <don@donarmstrong.com> writes: > On Thu, 29 May 2008, Joe Wells wrote: >> I believe this is due to messages being addressed to both >> bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org and XYZ@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com where XYZ >> is the bug number. When someone follows up, their message gets sent >> to bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org twice, because everything sent to >> XYZ@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com will also be sent onward to >> bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org. > > This is because people are using reply-to-all, instead of > reply-to-list or reply-to. I can resolve this by discarding duplicate > message ids, but thats more of a sledgehammer. Far better would be for > people to stop being silly and using reply-to-all, and instead use > reply-to-list or reply-to, both of which are set properly and behave > correctly. Unfortunately, there is no way to know whether all of the recipient addresses in a message are on the mailing list. Even if this is so for one mailing list, it might not be the case for other mailing lists. So people can not in general rely on the behavior of any “reply” function of their mail program to reach the right people. In this case, a good solution is that the bug tracking software could make sure to always omit bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org from the list of recipients whenever XYZ@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com is going to be one of the recipients. This will work in this case because anything sent to XYZ@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com will also get sent to bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org. I notice that you just now have started adding a Mail-Followup-To header. This is a good idea. I notice that don@donarmstrong.com is not in the Mail-Followup-To header. I'm curious, how does your software know to omit this address? Do you receive a copy of all bug report traffic regardless? >> Interestingly, by the time these two copies show up in the >> gnu.emacs.bug USENET newsgroup, they have the two different message >> IDs <mailman.12118.1211578329.18990.bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org> and >> <mailman.12121.1211578334.18990.bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>. >> >> By the way, it seems at first glance that none of these are the >> original message ID of Stefan's message, but instead these are fresh >> message IDs chosen by the bug tracking software and mailing list >> software. At least the two message IDs that begin with “mailman” are >> definitely fresh. These pieces of software should *not* be making up >> fresh message IDs. > > Debbugs has nothing to do with these message IDs; it adds > Resent-Message-Id: for the messages which it forwards, and retains the > original Message-Id:. Most likely this is something to do with the > mailman list-to-news gateway. Indeed, the “mailman” prefix of the message IDs hints at this. I don't know how the mailman software maintainers can justify this. When I wrote my report, it seemed to me that the message ID <jwvwslkzpun.fsf-monnier+emacsbugreports@gnu.org> might have been generated by your software. I am happy to hear this is not the case. -- Joe -- Heriot-Watt University is a Scottish charity registered under charity number SC000278. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
* bug#335: bug tracking system leads to duplicate replies appearing 2008-05-30 10:27 ` Joe Wells @ 2008-05-30 13:38 ` Stefan Monnier 0 siblings, 0 replies; 9+ messages in thread From: Stefan Monnier @ 2008-05-30 13:38 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Joe Wells; +Cc: 335 >> This is because people are using reply-to-all, instead of >> reply-to-list or reply-to. I can resolve this by discarding duplicate reply-to-all is my default mode of operation, because it's the one that minimizes the risk of missing someone. I'm not going to change this habit based on whether or not this message is on the bugtracker: my intention is to send it to all the recipients, so I use reply-to-all. > When I wrote my report, it seemed to me that the message ID > <jwvwslkzpun.fsf-monnier+emacsbugreports@gnu.org> might have been These mine. Stefan ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
* bug#335: marked as done (bug tracking system leads to duplicate replies appearing) 2008-05-29 22:31 ` bug#335: bug tracking system leads to duplicate replies appearing Joe Wells 2008-05-30 3:20 ` Don Armstrong [not found] ` <mailman.12419.1212118311.18990.bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org> @ 2010-01-22 20:37 ` Emacs bug Tracking System 2 siblings, 0 replies; 9+ messages in thread From: Emacs bug Tracking System @ 2010-01-22 20:37 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Glenn Morris; +Cc: emacs-bug-tracker [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 813 bytes --] Your message dated Fri, 22 Jan 2010 15:36:26 -0500 with message-id <bjvdetvpv9.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> and subject line Re: Bug#897 has caused the Emacs bug report #897, regarding bug tracking system leads to duplicate replies appearing to be marked as done. This means that you claim that the problem has been dealt with. If this is not the case it is now your responsibility to reopen the bug report if necessary, and/or fix the problem forthwith. (NB: If you are a system administrator and have no idea what this message is talking about, this may indicate a serious mail system misconfiguration somewhere. Please contact bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org immediately.) -- 897: http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=897 Emacs Bug Tracking System Contact bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org with problems [-- Attachment #2: Type: message/rfc822, Size: 4506 bytes --] From: Joe Wells <jbw@macs.hw.ac.uk> To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Subject: bug tracking system leads to duplicate replies appearing Date: Thu, 29 May 2008 23:31:19 +0100 Message-ID: <86r6bkwxmw.fsf@macs.hw.ac.uk> I've noticed that most of the replies appearing in the gnu.emacs.bug newsgroup seems to be duplicated. This duplication is also occurring in the bug-gnu-emacs mailing list (although most of the web interfaces to the mailing list detect and hide the duplicates). I believe this is due to messages being addressed to both bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org and XYZ@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com where XYZ is the bug number. When someone follows up, their message gets sent to bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org twice, because everything sent to XYZ@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com will also be sent onward to bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org. You can see for yourself in the mailing list archives. As just one example, in the file at <URL:ftp://lists.gnu.org/bug-gnu-emacs/2008-05>, you can see two messages with the message ID <jwvwslkzpun.fsf-monnier+emacsbugreports@gnu.org>, which are both copies of a single message that Stefan Monnier posted in reply to a bug report I posted earlier. Interestingly, by the time these two copies show up in the gnu.emacs.bug USENET newsgroup, they have the two different message IDs <mailman.12118.1211578329.18990.bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org> and <mailman.12121.1211578334.18990.bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>. By the way, it seems at first glance that none of these are the original message ID of Stefan's message, but instead these are fresh message IDs chosen by the bug tracking software and mailing list software. At least the two message IDs that begin with “mailman” are definitely fresh. These pieces of software should *not* be making up fresh message IDs. Changing message IDs prevents duplicate filtering software from working, and also leads to fractured message threads where the reading software can not tell what is a reply to what. I hope this bug report is helpful in tracking down and stopping this useless and confusing duplication of messages. -- Joe -- Heriot-Watt University is a Scottish charity registered under charity number SC000278. [-- Attachment #3: Type: message/rfc822, Size: 2143 bytes --] From: Glenn Morris <rgm@gnu.org> To: 897-done@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: Re: Bug#897 Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2010 15:36:26 -0500 Message-ID: <bjvdetvpv9.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> Recent changes ought to gradually make duplicate emails less common. (See bug#5384). This is still not perfect, so I'll open a new, shorter bug with the remaining issues. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
* bug#392: duplicate messages on bug-gnu-emacs via emacsbugs@donarmstrong @ 2008-06-12 1:05 ` jidanni 2010-01-22 20:37 ` bug#392: marked as done (duplicate messages on bug-gnu-emacs via emacsbugs@donarmstrong) Emacs bug Tracking System 0 siblings, 1 reply; 9+ messages in thread From: jidanni @ 2008-06-12 1:05 UTC (permalink / raw) To: bug-gnu-emacs Many messages appear twice here reading on GMANE.org. E.g., when somebody does Cc: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org, 378@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com Can perhaps these two lists not change the Message-ID, so duplicates can be detected and discarded, or somehow otherwise suppressed. Or maybe Stefan should just better edit the headers he sends? ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
* bug#392: marked as done (duplicate messages on bug-gnu-emacs via emacsbugs@donarmstrong) 2008-06-12 1:05 ` bug#392: duplicate messages on bug-gnu-emacs via emacsbugs@donarmstrong jidanni @ 2010-01-22 20:37 ` Emacs bug Tracking System 0 siblings, 0 replies; 9+ messages in thread From: Emacs bug Tracking System @ 2010-01-22 20:37 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Glenn Morris; +Cc: emacs-bug-tracker [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 819 bytes --] Your message dated Fri, 22 Jan 2010 15:36:26 -0500 with message-id <bjvdetvpv9.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> and subject line Re: Bug#897 has caused the Emacs bug report #897, regarding duplicate messages on bug-gnu-emacs via emacsbugs@donarmstrong to be marked as done. This means that you claim that the problem has been dealt with. If this is not the case it is now your responsibility to reopen the bug report if necessary, and/or fix the problem forthwith. (NB: If you are a system administrator and have no idea what this message is talking about, this may indicate a serious mail system misconfiguration somewhere. Please contact bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org immediately.) -- 897: http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=897 Emacs Bug Tracking System Contact bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org with problems [-- Attachment #2: Type: message/rfc822, Size: 2277 bytes --] From: jidanni@jidanni.org To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Subject: duplicate messages on bug-gnu-emacs via emacsbugs@donarmstrong Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 09:05:52 +0800 Message-ID: <8763sfjwcv.fsf@jidanni.org> Many messages appear twice here reading on GMANE.org. E.g., when somebody does Cc: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org, 378@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com Can perhaps these two lists not change the Message-ID, so duplicates can be detected and discarded, or somehow otherwise suppressed. Or maybe Stefan should just better edit the headers he sends? [-- Attachment #3: Type: message/rfc822, Size: 2143 bytes --] From: Glenn Morris <rgm@gnu.org> To: 897-done@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: Re: Bug#897 Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2010 15:36:26 -0500 Message-ID: <bjvdetvpv9.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> Recent changes ought to gradually make duplicate emails less common. (See bug#5384). This is still not perfect, so I'll open a new, shorter bug with the remaining issues. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
* bug#897: Huge numbers of duplicate mails @ 2008-09-05 17:59 ` Glenn Morris 2010-01-22 20:37 ` bug#897: marked as done (Huge numbers of duplicate mails) Emacs bug Tracking System 0 siblings, 1 reply; 9+ messages in thread From: Glenn Morris @ 2008-09-05 17:59 UTC (permalink / raw) To: bug-gnu-emacs Package: emacs,emacsbugs Almost every mail on the bug-gnu-emacs mailing list is duplicated. Mailman at least seems to filter them from the html archives, but if you are subscribed to the list, or look at the gnu.emacs.bug newsgroup you can see them. It happens because people keep using followup to reply to all the addresses in a bug report, ie they send mail to both: 123@emacsbugs and bug-gnu-emacs (or emacs-pretest-bugs). This was traditionally the Right Thing to do in these lists, so it will be hard to get people to change. Perhaps bug #430 (wish...) will help with this, but here is another suggestion: If emacsbugs sees that bug-gnu-emacs or emacs-pretest-bug is already Cc'd on a reply to bug, it should avoid sending out another copy to the list. Ie, it treats it as a "quiet" submission only to be entered in the tracker. (Presumably there must already be some logic to handle this case, because it at least avoids creating a new numbered bug report.) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
* bug#897: marked as done (Huge numbers of duplicate mails) 2008-09-05 17:59 ` bug#897: Huge numbers of duplicate mails Glenn Morris @ 2010-01-22 20:37 ` Emacs bug Tracking System 0 siblings, 0 replies; 9+ messages in thread From: Emacs bug Tracking System @ 2010-01-22 20:37 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Glenn Morris; +Cc: emacs-bug-tracker [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 788 bytes --] Your message dated Fri, 22 Jan 2010 15:36:26 -0500 with message-id <bjvdetvpv9.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> and subject line Re: Bug#897 has caused the Emacs bug report #897, regarding Huge numbers of duplicate mails to be marked as done. This means that you claim that the problem has been dealt with. If this is not the case it is now your responsibility to reopen the bug report if necessary, and/or fix the problem forthwith. (NB: If you are a system administrator and have no idea what this message is talking about, this may indicate a serious mail system misconfiguration somewhere. Please contact bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org immediately.) -- 897: http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=897 Emacs Bug Tracking System Contact bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org with problems [-- Attachment #2: Type: message/rfc822, Size: 2993 bytes --] From: Glenn Morris <rgm@gnu.org> To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Subject: Huge numbers of duplicate mails Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2008 13:59:08 -0400 Message-ID: <99myimlbir.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> Package: emacs,emacsbugs Almost every mail on the bug-gnu-emacs mailing list is duplicated. Mailman at least seems to filter them from the html archives, but if you are subscribed to the list, or look at the gnu.emacs.bug newsgroup you can see them. It happens because people keep using followup to reply to all the addresses in a bug report, ie they send mail to both: 123@emacsbugs and bug-gnu-emacs (or emacs-pretest-bugs). This was traditionally the Right Thing to do in these lists, so it will be hard to get people to change. Perhaps bug #430 (wish...) will help with this, but here is another suggestion: If emacsbugs sees that bug-gnu-emacs or emacs-pretest-bug is already Cc'd on a reply to bug, it should avoid sending out another copy to the list. Ie, it treats it as a "quiet" submission only to be entered in the tracker. (Presumably there must already be some logic to handle this case, because it at least avoids creating a new numbered bug report.) [-- Attachment #3: Type: message/rfc822, Size: 2143 bytes --] From: Glenn Morris <rgm@gnu.org> To: 897-done@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: Re: Bug#897 Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2010 15:36:26 -0500 Message-ID: <bjvdetvpv9.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> Recent changes ought to gradually make duplicate emails less common. (See bug#5384). This is still not perfect, so I'll open a new, shorter bug with the remaining issues. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2010-01-22 20:37 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 9+ messages (download: mbox.gz follow: Atom feed -- links below jump to the message on this page -- [not found] <bjvdetvpv9.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> 2008-05-29 22:31 ` bug#335: bug tracking system leads to duplicate replies appearing Joe Wells 2008-05-30 3:20 ` Don Armstrong [not found] ` <mailman.12419.1212118311.18990.bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org> 2008-05-30 10:27 ` Joe Wells 2008-05-30 13:38 ` Stefan Monnier 2010-01-22 20:37 ` bug#335: marked as done (bug tracking system leads to duplicate replies appearing) Emacs bug Tracking System 2008-06-12 1:05 ` bug#392: duplicate messages on bug-gnu-emacs via emacsbugs@donarmstrong jidanni 2010-01-22 20:37 ` bug#392: marked as done (duplicate messages on bug-gnu-emacs via emacsbugs@donarmstrong) Emacs bug Tracking System 2008-09-05 17:59 ` bug#897: Huge numbers of duplicate mails Glenn Morris 2010-01-22 20:37 ` bug#897: marked as done (Huge numbers of duplicate mails) Emacs bug Tracking System
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