From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#12065: 24.1; `custom-magic-show': set to "no", cannot get back again Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2016 09:01:30 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <99e35d3a-bdb9-4d90-b2a3-ef826170f45b@default> References: <<04EBBBCAD8654AC7B0EB2447BE595FEC@us.oracle.com> <87h9ay94y7.fsf@users.sourceforge.net>> <<2e75b433-131f-49c8-9939-2c00ba7e2827@default>> <<8360rel646.fsf@gnu.org>> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1470501323 2584 195.159.176.226 (6 Aug 2016 16:35:23 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2016 16:35:23 +0000 (UTC) Cc: npostavs@users.sourceforge.net, 12065@debbugs.gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii , Drew Adams Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Aug 06 18:35:19 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bW4ZB-0008Dx-71 for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 06 Aug 2016 18:35:17 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:49995 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bW4Z5-0007wB-80 for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 06 Aug 2016 12:35:11 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:36813) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bW4Yz-0007ut-8Y for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 06 Aug 2016 12:35:06 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bW4Yw-0003eo-2b for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 06 Aug 2016 12:35:05 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.43]:60805) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bW4Yv-0003ek-Vc for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 06 Aug 2016 12:35:02 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bW4Yv-0002Yc-Rf for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 06 Aug 2016 12:35:01 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 06 Aug 2016 16:35:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 12065 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: notabug Original-Received: via spool by 12065-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B12065.14705012929812 (code B ref 12065); Sat, 06 Aug 2016 16:35:01 +0000 Original-Received: (at 12065) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Aug 2016 16:34:52 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58102 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bW4Ym-0002YC-2O for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 06 Aug 2016 12:34:52 -0400 Original-Received: from userp1040.oracle.com ([156.151.31.81]:16826) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bW4Yk-0002Xy-Am for 12065@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 06 Aug 2016 12:34:50 -0400 Original-Received: from userv0021.oracle.com (userv0021.oracle.com [156.151.31.71]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id u76GYhYi004981 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 6 Aug 2016 16:34:43 GMT Original-Received: from userv0122.oracle.com (userv0122.oracle.com [156.151.31.75]) by userv0021.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id u76GYhYv004802 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 6 Aug 2016 16:34:43 GMT Original-Received: from abhmp0003.oracle.com (abhmp0003.oracle.com [141.146.116.9]) by userv0122.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id u76GYf5Z030066; Sat, 6 Aug 2016 16:34:42 GMT In-Reply-To: <<8360rel646.fsf@gnu.org>> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9 (901082) [OL 12.0.6744.5000 (x86)] X-Source-IP: userv0021.oracle.com [156.151.31.71] X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 208.118.235.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:121907 Archived-At: > > I don't understand how that means that this is not a bug. > > You've misunderstood what Noam was saying, that's all. > > > You might not have the will or resources to fix this now, > > but this certainly must be a bug. >=20 > And this is an uncalled-for attack. Are you working on acquiring yet > another member of the project who will not want to work on your bug > reports? If so, you are on the right path. *That* is an unwarranted attack. Are you working on convincing Noam that he should not work on bugs I report? My point was (1) that it is _fine_ to (a) *not want* to work on a particular bug, or to want to but (b) *not have the time* to. And that that is _expected_, particularly for bugs that are judged to be minor and whose fixes might not be minor. (2) But that, in itself, is not a reason to close a bug. A bug can remain open without getting immediate attention to fix it. That was my point (1 & 2). There is nothing "attacking" in what I said, and nothing ad hominem. Your response, on the other hand... FWIW, I don't have any problem with what I've seen of Noam's work on fixing bugs or his attitude or approach to doing so. On the contrary. And I thank him for helping. I did not (and do not) see how there being an "Apply" button, or being able to `setq' the variable, means that there is no bug here. That was a reason given as to why there is no bug, and to me that is no reason. If `defun' stopped working it would not be appropriate to say that there was no bug because you can just use `fset'. > > Using the Value menu to change the value to no should > > [not] make the State menu disappear. ^^^^^ typo - missed this; sorry > There is no bug that I can see, Emacs is behaving as > documented and as expected, since hiding that button is > part of what the nil value does. I see. I haven't located that documentation. Where does Emacs say that? The doc string certainly doesn't say it. And there is nothing in the manuals about it. In fact, the doc says _nothing_ about the behavior when the value is nil (as the bug report mentions). You can guess, from the description of non-nil, that nil means to not show the "textual description of the state". But that description is the text near the State button, which describes the current state. It is not the State button itself. That is not what the State button does - the button is not a textual description, and it does not describe the current state. If what you say is really the intention, then the doc should say that nil removes the State button as well as the textual description of the current state. Otherwise, users are likely to be as surprised and confused as I was when I stumbled on this unusual behavior, and wonder how to get back the State button (which does more than just set the option value for the current session). Both what nil does to the State button, and how to get it back, should be made clear in the doc. I'd argue that the current behavior wrt hiding the State button, whether intended or not, is bad - user unfriendly. But if you like it, please fix the doc so it lets users know just what to expect. Thx.