From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Drew Adams" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#9174: give help-gnu-emacs listinfo page URL Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2011 08:13:21 -0700 Message-ID: <99FBAF547DA94941B46A91D9A8CAB869@us.oracle.com> References: <87y5zlt216.fsf@jidanni.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1315754037 28925 80.91.229.12 (11 Sep 2011 15:13:57 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2011 15:13:57 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 9174@debbugs.gnu.org To: "'Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen'" , Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Sep 11 17:13:52 2011 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([140.186.70.17]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R2ljD-0004AX-9Q for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sun, 11 Sep 2011 17:13:51 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:35291 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1R2ljC-0007DT-Ez for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sun, 11 Sep 2011 11:13:50 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]:58950) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1R2lj9-0007DC-F1 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 11 Sep 2011 11:13:48 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1R2lj8-0005Gw-8W for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 11 Sep 2011 11:13:47 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.43]:52022) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1R2lj8-0005Gp-5Z for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 11 Sep 2011 11:13:46 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R2lnG-0002CN-4J; Sun, 11 Sep 2011 11:18:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: "Drew Adams" Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-To: owner@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2011 15:18:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 9174 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: wontfix Original-Received: via spool by 9174-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B9174.13157542668429 (code B ref 9174); Sun, 11 Sep 2011 15:18:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 9174) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Sep 2011 15:17:46 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R2lmz-0002Bu-9h for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 11 Sep 2011 11:17:45 -0400 Original-Received: from rcsinet15.oracle.com ([148.87.113.117]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R2lmx-0002Bn-Gk for 9174@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 11 Sep 2011 11:17:44 -0400 Original-Received: from acsinet21.oracle.com (acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237]) by rcsinet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.4/Switch-3.4.4) with ESMTP id p8BFDO1X023208 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 11 Sep 2011 15:13:26 GMT Original-Received: from acsmt356.oracle.com (acsmt356.oracle.com [141.146.40.156]) by acsinet21.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p8BFDNwm003780 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sun, 11 Sep 2011 15:13:24 GMT Original-Received: from abhmt101.oracle.com (abhmt101.oracle.com [141.146.116.53]) by acsmt356.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id p8BFDISS023469; Sun, 11 Sep 2011 10:13:18 -0500 Original-Received: from dradamslap1 (/10.159.62.110) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Sun, 11 Sep 2011 08:13:18 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: AcxwLlhZEN2tcVRGRzmSviZsYihIjQAZdS+w X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6109 In-Reply-To: X-Source-IP: acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090203.4E6CD016.012A:SCFMA922111,ss=1,re=-4.000,fgs=0 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list Resent-Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2011 11:18:02 -0400 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 1) X-Received-From: 140.186.70.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:50892 Archived-At: > > On (info "(emacs) Service") mention > > https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/help-gnu-emacs > > so people can see the archives before posting. > > Including URLs in the manuals always means more work, since these > invariably change. So I don't think this is a good idea. With that logic we should just delete the whole manual, nay, all of the manuals. That would certainly save work. Of course such a link should be provided. That's a no-brainer. This link target describes the help mailing list. That is likely to save work in the end. And even if it means more support work, it should be done because it helps users. What's more, GNU should, if it does not already, have a way to use permanent links (aka universal linking), so that even if a background URL changes the URL in the doc can stay the same. IOW, this is an opportunity to improve how we link, not just an opportunity to save work or close bugs. Until such permanent linking is available, please add a normal, "invariably changing" URL. Users go to the "work" of reporting such bugs. The least we can do is honor that work with a dignified response, and not just reject suggestions out of hand with the sole argument that they mean a little work.