From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Jean-Christophe Helary Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Translation of manuals (was: SES manual French translation) Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2024 12:18:09 +0000 Message-ID: <983FB67C-7FC1-42C4-B979-07B68613A2BC@traductaire-libre.org> References: <838r55y05r.fsf@gnu.org> <62B42DE8-CFDC-4D6E-A74C-28D7E4B063B1@traductaire-libre.org> <837ckpxvmz.fsf@gnu.org> <9197D9C0-7AE7-4E8D-BFDA-D185C905465B@traductaire-libre.org> <83plyeua9d.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="5238"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Eli Zaretskii , Richard Stallman , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Stefan Kangas Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Jan 06 13:56:48 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1rM6EI-00018f-KM for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 06 Jan 2024 13:56:46 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rM6Dn-0004K6-Q0; Sat, 06 Jan 2024 07:56:15 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rM5dM-000528-3z for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 06 Jan 2024 07:18:36 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-4018.proton.ch ([185.70.40.18]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rM5dJ-0007pY-NY; Sat, 06 Jan 2024 07:18:35 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=traductaire-libre.org; s=protonmail; t=1704543510; x=1704802710; bh=PGR7Al4rWusYq+0Lv7XBu1XowDIUYcTtsfFJBQqJBGI=; h=Date:To:From:Cc:Subject:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References: Feedback-ID:From:To:Cc:Date:Subject:Reply-To:Feedback-ID: Message-ID:BIMI-Selector; b=z+0TRAy4hynh4kuxyHFJHhVL0XxjiDFnG43XIjrzYl0LId1cNgssFdCLtC9rlhdGl tPLyR5TtJOAW8V+ES38XAHkbKoRoGUWM5YqFFKL5P4XpQ3DZUxnTxx4wJEL/dSnuNs DPr75dmzcEB4wqM+MJSKrcHbp9EIrssCcVo6NGquC7Z67CQkpLOxQPweGYyT7awobW nLL7XL9ee790iIKK/lfmn8WAiOQILT1cjwTzDFauPbVjcHgHle26elYLnoDr0TAhnD 5mWxz3d3D0+Uz+qatWBRWV9GybRsgNjdSwKcF7OAau/bh3Lf2RDgHYUUYT4yH04WhN zYH3o9GyeMFrg== In-Reply-To: Feedback-ID: 92162971:user:proton Received-SPF: pass client-ip=185.70.40.18; envelope-from=jean.christophe.helary@traductaire-libre.org; helo=mail-4018.proton.ch X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H5=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sat, 06 Jan 2024 07:56:12 -0500 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:314614 Archived-At: > On Jan 6, 2024, at 20:52, Stefan Kangas wrote: >=20 > Eli Zaretskii writes: >=20 >>> Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2024 05:40:38 +0000 >>> From: Jean-Christophe Helary >>> Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org >>>=20 >>> But now that I understand why Eli as project maintainer does not favour >>> PO, I am totally fine with the project=E2=80=99s position. We need to >>> investigate what are the best ways to handle TeXinfo files for >>> translation and propose guidelines to potential translators. >>=20 >> My personal preferences only matter when I do the translation. It is >> wrong to impose those preferences on others. Of course, the >> motivation to be able to work on translation in Emacs is high, but >> whether what Emacs provides is good enough is up to each translator to >> decide. >=20 > Since Jean-Christophe seems willing to volunteer for this work, let's > grab that opportunity with both hands. >=20 > To be a bit more practical, here's what I'd propose: >=20 > - Continue using PO for the translations for now, in particular the > French one that is already using that format. Well, I=E2=80=99m certainly not going to give up my setup because of the=20 discussions we=E2=80=99ve had :), but I certainly won=E2=80=99t force Vince= nt (or=20 any other person willing to work on a French translation) to follow my=20 =E2=80=9Clead=E2=80=9D. I know what=E2=80=99s good for me, but I won=E2=80=99t speak for others. Pl= us, it is=20 not hard to incorporate pure texi translations into my workflow. I=E2=80= =99m just a=20 bit worried about potential diff noise between a texi to texi=20 translation (Vincent=E2=80=99s) and a texi to po to texi one (mine). But th= at=E2=80=99s=20 something I can deal with. This discussion has prompted me to test building a short translated=20 manual (GnuTLS Emacs integration). I=E2=80=99ve noticed a few texi things t= hat=20 need some tweaking and when I understand what it=E2=80=99s all about I= =E2=80=99ll make=20 suggestions. The first one would be that all the current manuals should have the=20 following directives by default: @documentlanguage en @documentencoding UTF-8 so that translators know that they only have to change the language,=20 instead of checking which directive to add to their work. > - Get the infrastructure in place for such translations in emacs.git. >=20 > - We can consider changing things later, if we can find or come up with > a better alternative to PO. Just like I hate it when a client forces me to use a=20 process/application to get a translation done, I=E2=80=99m sure that other= =20 translators have their own processes that may not involve PO. So maybe=20 just indicating in a readme that there is the texi to texi route and=20 also other routes like texi to po to texi for people who are already=20 used to that process. > Does that basic plan make sense? If by =E2=80=9Cbasic=E2=80=9D you mean =E2=80=9Clet=E2=80=99s move on and t= ranslate=E2=80=9D :) Yes, it does :)