From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: Finding packages to enable by default Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2014 15:54:29 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <980fc742-9fd0-45e3-920e-83f064770871@default> References: <87ob4fg3zp.fsf@gmail.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1403218502 24551 80.91.229.3 (19 Jun 2014 22:55:02 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2014 22:55:02 +0000 (UTC) To: Stefan Monnier , emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Jun 20 00:54:55 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1WxlEL-0002Dx-G1 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 20 Jun 2014 00:54:53 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:38268 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WxlEL-0001DA-1y for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 19 Jun 2014 18:54:53 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:33540) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WxlEB-0001C0-3M for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 19 Jun 2014 18:54:50 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WxlE3-0005Rq-39 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 19 Jun 2014 18:54:43 -0400 Original-Received: from userp1040.oracle.com ([156.151.31.81]:30340) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WxlE2-0005RV-So for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 19 Jun 2014 18:54:35 -0400 Original-Received: from acsinet22.oracle.com (acsinet22.oracle.com [141.146.126.238]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id s5JMsVxr013849 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 19 Jun 2014 22:54:32 GMT Original-Received: from aserz7021.oracle.com (aserz7021.oracle.com [141.146.126.230]) by acsinet22.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id s5JMsUjv017668 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 19 Jun 2014 22:54:30 GMT Original-Received: from abhmp0020.oracle.com (abhmp0020.oracle.com [141.146.116.26]) by aserz7021.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id s5JMsUPO017103; Thu, 19 Jun 2014 22:54:30 GMT In-Reply-To: X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.8 (707110) [OL 12.0.6691.5000 (x86)] X-Source-IP: acsinet22.oracle.com [141.146.126.238] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.4.x-2.6.x [generic] X-Received-From: 156.151.31.81 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:172548 Archived-At: FWIW - > > | abbrev-mode | 30 | > > | auto-fill-mode | 30 | > > | column-number-mode | 70 | > > | delete-selection-mode | 25 | > > | dired-x | 33 | > > | eldoc-mode | 36 | > > | flyspell-mode | 41 | > > | show-paren-mode | 65 | > > | ibuffer | 45 | > > | ido-everywhere | 31 | > > | ido-mode | 60 | > > | recentf-mode | 43 | > > | windmove | 30 | > > | winner-mode | 35 | > I edited the table to remove the modes that are already enabled by > default in 24.4 (as well as removing the major modes which aren't > really applicable to this discussion anyway). You edited the table where? The table is on Emacs Wiki: http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/FrequentlyEnabledPackages_Emacs244_Survey It was last updated yesteday by Brian Kavanagh. 140 users have now recorded their use data there. The figures you cite are apparently from Jambuhathan's mail of 2013-12-17 (when 120 users were reported). For the same libraries you cite, for example, the wiki page now shows: | abbrev-mode | 41 | | auto-fill-mode | 44 | | column-number-mode | 92 | | delete-selection-mode | 33 | | dired-x | 47 | | eldoc-mode | 52 | | flyspell-mode | 56 | | show-paren-mode | 87 | | ibuffer | 61 | | ido-everywhere | 45 | | ido-mode | 84 | | recentf-mode | 59 | | windmove | 39 | | winner-mode | 8 | (I have no explanation for why or how winner-mode went down. I suspect that someone introduced a typo when editing it, but that part of the history is not available AFAIK. I and others have been keeping an eye out for mistakes, but this checking was done manually, and was clearly error-prone.) [delete-selection-mode] > We've been getting closer to this one over time, so we may get there at > some point. I'm not completely sure we're ready for it yet. But in any > case, I don't like the current implementation, so before we can switch > someone will have to re-implement it along the same lines as what was > done for the shift-select-mode, i.e. have the affected command call the > delete-selection code themselves, rather than use a pre-command-hook. Please write a new library for that (like you did for linum.el etc.). Please leave the design of delsel.el and `delete-selection-mode' alone. > If you look at delsel.el, you'll see that few commands are affected, > and changing self-insert-command would be sufficient to cover a few > of the other ones as well, so the changes should really be pretty small. Each time this has been talked about, the interface for programmers of what you have proposed has not been at all like that of delsel.el, which is simple to use and flexible: just set a property on a command. I know the downside to that design (your objections), but I also appreciate the upside (just mentioned). I hope you will not simply jettison the longstanding design for something less lispy. Or rather, that would be welcome, as long as it is a separate (new) library. I don't even mind if you deprecate the old design (i.e., delsel.el) as far as GNU Emacs is concerned, as long as users can still find and use it. I would object to its wholesale replacement by another design under the same names: delsel.el and `delete-selection-mode'. Instead, please do what you did for nlinum.el vs linum.el and your new advice thingy vs defadvice, if you want to try a new design. Just one opinion.