From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Paul Eggert Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: CHECK_STRUCTS/dmpstruct.h mechanism is broken. Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2019 11:58:20 -0700 Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department Message-ID: <9809d5ce-c1c4-48e9-6dac-489431b34067@cs.ucla.edu> References: <20190228202146.GC4686@ACM> <20190228205955.GD4686@ACM> <20190410162203.GA4009@ACM> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Info: blaine.gmane.org; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:195.159.176.226"; logging-data="197233"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@blaine.gmane.org" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.6.1 Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Daniel Colascione , Alan Mackenzie Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Apr 10 21:00:01 2019 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1hEIS1-000p99-Au for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 10 Apr 2019 21:00:01 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36452 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hEIS0-0004nR-AJ for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 10 Apr 2019 15:00:00 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:47929) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hEIQj-0003mi-G2 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 10 Apr 2019 14:58:42 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hEIQi-0005wE-I2 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 10 Apr 2019 14:58:41 -0400 Original-Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([131.179.128.68]:59474) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hEIQe-0005iO-QS for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 10 Apr 2019 14:58:38 -0400 Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5FAF516166D; Wed, 10 Apr 2019 11:58:21 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id eEO8heDePRiI; Wed, 10 Apr 2019 11:58:20 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 93B611616BA; Wed, 10 Apr 2019 11:58:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at zimbra.cs.ucla.edu Original-Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id Ikw5moHZPsrO; Wed, 10 Apr 2019 11:58:20 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from Penguin.CS.UCLA.EDU (Penguin.CS.UCLA.EDU [131.179.64.200]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 6E2991616B5; Wed, 10 Apr 2019 11:58:20 -0700 (PDT) Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=eggert@cs.ucla.edu; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= xsFNBEyAcmQBEADAAyH2xoTu7ppG5D3a8FMZEon74dCvc4+q1XA2J2tBy2pwaTqfhpxxdGA9 Jj50UJ3PD4bSUEgN8tLZ0san47l5XTAFLi2456ciSl5m8sKaHlGdt9XmAAtmXqeZVIYX/UFS 96fDzf4xhEmm/y7LbYEPQdUdxu47xA5KhTYp5bltF3WYDz1Ygd7gx07Auwp7iw7eNvnoDTAl KAl8KYDZzbDNCQGEbpY3efZIvPdeI+FWQN4W+kghy+P6au6PrIIhYraeua7XDdb2LS1en3Ss mE3QjqfRqI/A2ue8JMwsvXe/WK38Ezs6x74iTaqI3AFH6ilAhDqpMnd/msSESNFt76DiO1ZK QMr9amVPknjfPmJISqdhgB1DlEdw34sROf6V8mZw0xfqT6PKE46LcFefzs0kbg4GORf8vjG2 Sf1tk5eU8MBiyN/bZ03bKNjNYMpODDQQwuP84kYLkX2wBxxMAhBxwbDVZudzxDZJ1C2VXujC OJVxq2kljBM9ETYuUGqd75AW2LXrLw6+MuIsHFAYAgRr7+KcwDgBAfwhPBYX34nSSiHlmLC+ KaHLeCLF5ZI2vKm3HEeCTtlOg7xZEONgwzL+fdKo+D6SoC8RRxJKs8a3sVfI4t6CnrQzvJbB n6gxdgCu5i29J1QCYrCYvql2UyFPAK+do99/1jOXT4m2836j1wARAQABzSBQYXVsIEVnZ2Vy dCA8ZWdnZXJ0QGNzLnVjbGEuZWR1PsLBfgQTAQIAKAUCTIByZAIbAwUJEswDAAYLCQgHAwIG FQgCCQoLBBYCAwECH In-Reply-To: Content-Language: en-US X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 131.179.128.68 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:235241 Archived-At: On 4/10/19 11:47 AM, Daniel Colascione wrote: > Without CHECK_STRUCTS, we *will* break dumped > Emacs in some subtle way sooner or later. We're gonna break dumped Emacs in subtle ways no matter what. After all, pdumper.c was broken in subtle ways when it was first introduced, despite CHECK_STRUCTS. That's just life, and it's not the issue here. The issue is whether the benefits of the CHECK_STRUCTS mechanism is worth the hassle. In my experience it's definitely not worth it. The more gingerbread we put into the Emacs build procedure, the more it's off-putting to other potential developers (and the more work it is for us). We already have too much build overhead (starting with Autoconf! I hate Autoconf! It should go away!) and we should not neglect its costs when looking at the benefits of a new hassle we add to the build procedure. So far the benefits of CHECK_STRUCT have been zero in the master, and the costs have been slowdown and significant annoyance to the developer who's made the most changes to this part of the code.