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Sun, 3 Sep 2023 11:15:38 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface In-Reply-To: Received-SPF: pass client-ip=66.111.4.26; envelope-from=bozhidar@batsov.dev; helo=out2-smtp.messagingengine.com X-Spam_score_int: -27 X-Spam_score: -2.8 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:309984 Archived-At: --5c3724c9055f48fba4f646fdce2b290c Content-Type: text/plain That's a pretty disappointing remark, which implies that the Emacs team doesn't really care about having a good collaboration with the authors and maintainers of 3rd party Emacs packages. I know that for whatever reason we're now discussing clojure-mode, but there are many other major modes for which one can make exactly the same case (erlang-mode, elixir-mode, haskell-mode, etc). Let's just rush forward and include some stripped down/forked versions of them upstream as well, ignoring the people behind them and their end users (who are bound to face some degree of confusion short term). Adopting such a combative stance across the board would be very harmful for our small community IMO. On Fri, Sep 1, 2023, at 3:29 PM, Lynn Winebarger wrote: > On Fri, Sep 1, 2023, 9:13 AM Danny Freeman wrote: >> >> Eli Zaretskii writes: >> >> >> Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2023 12:14:21 +0300 >> >> Cc: rms@gnu.org, joaotavora@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org >> >> From: Dmitry Gutov >> >> >> >> But we don't always agree between ourselves. Not on this subject anyway. >> > >> > Those disagreements are not relevant when the issue is the inclusion >> > of a package in core. >> >> I'd like to think I have the best interests of Emacs at heart, both as >> someone who has contributed a handful bug fixes to the core, as a >> clojure developer in my day job, and as the maintainer of >> clojure-ts-mode. >> >> With that in mind, I won't stand in the way of a new clojure editing >> mode for Emacs, in fact I suggested enabling lisp mode for clojure files >> somewhere else in this thread. However, I will advocate for not >> hijacking the name clojure-mode that has been in active use for 15 >> years. > > I don't think using the term "hijacking" is productive. The GNU emacs developers could well say that using a standard functional name like "clojure-mode" with no intent to contribute it to the core was the "hijacking", or perhaps namespace-squatting. It would be different for "cider" or another non-standard, nonfunctional name. It should have been obvious at the time clojure-mode was originally authored that the name would have been adopted for a builtin mode if there were going to be one. > > Lynn > > > > --5c3724c9055f48fba4f646fdce2b290c Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
That's a pretty= disappointing remark, which implies that the Emacs team doesn't really = care about having a good collaboration with the authors and maintainers = of 3rd party Emacs packages.

I know that f= or whatever reason we're now discussing clojure-mode, but there are many= other major modes for which one can make exactly the same case (erlang-= mode, elixir-mode, haskell-mode, etc). Let's just rush forward and inclu= de some stripped down/forked versions of them upstream as well, ignoring= the people behind them and their end users (who are bound to face some = degree of confusion short term). Adopting such a combative stance across= the board would be very harmful for our small community IMO. 
=

On Fri, Sep 1, 2023, at 3:29 PM, Lynn Winebarg= er wrote:
On Fri, Sep 1, 2023, 9:13 AM Danny Freeman <danny@dfr= eeman.email> wrote:

Eli Zaretskii <eliz@= gnu.org> writes:

>> Date: Fr= i, 1 Sep 2023 12:14:21 +0300
>> Cc: rms@gnu.org, joaotavora@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org
= >> From: Dmitry Gutov <dmitry@gutov.dev>
= >>
>> But we don't always agree between our= selves. Not on this subject anyway.
>
&= gt; Those disagreements are not relevant when the issue is the inclusion=
> of a package in core.

I'd like to think I have the best interests of Emacs at heart, both as=
someone who has contributed a handful bug fixes to the c= ore, as a
clojure developer in my day job, and as the mai= ntainer of
clojure-ts-mode.

With that in mind, I won't stand in the way of a new clojure editing
mode for Emacs, in fact I suggested enabling lisp mode for= clojure files
somewhere else in this thread. However, I = will advocate for not
hijacking the name clojure-mode tha= t has been in active use for 15
years.

I don't th= ink using the term "hijacking" is productive.  The GNU emacs develo= pers could well say that using a standard functional name like "clojure-= mode" with no intent to contribute it to the core was the "hijacking", o= r perhaps namespace-squatting.  It would be different for "cider" o= r another non-standard, nonfunctional name.  It should have been ob= vious at the time clojure-mode was originally authored that the name wou= ld have been adopted for a builtin mode if there were going to be one.

Lynn




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