From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Johan Andersson Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Dvorak/Svorak in Emacs Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2009 09:39:41 +0000 Message-ID: <929ccd880910050239g6a8da917j7b3ed52f9a186e76@mail.gmail.com> References: <70c362c8-9d38-4ac0-9e33-f110c7c844da@k13g2000prh.googlegroups.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0003255596b29dee4104752ce4b0 X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1254735648 14462 80.91.229.12 (5 Oct 2009 09:40:48 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2009 09:40:48 +0000 (UTC) Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org To: Xah Lee Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Oct 05 11:40:43 2009 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1Muk3b-0008Jc-Jw for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Mon, 05 Oct 2009 11:40:41 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53182 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Muk3b-0004dM-9e for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Mon, 05 Oct 2009 05:40:39 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Muk2m-0004cz-Am for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 05 Oct 2009 05:39:48 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Muk2h-0004cc-AI for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 05 Oct 2009 05:39:47 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=46597 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Muk2g-0004cV-WC for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 05 Oct 2009 05:39:43 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-fx0-f205.google.com ([209.85.220.205]:45006) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1Muk2g-0001Z8-BB for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 05 Oct 2009 05:39:42 -0400 Original-Received: by fxm1 with SMTP id 1so2340865fxm.31 for ; Mon, 05 Oct 2009 02:39:41 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=24I0z4KqtVUtzTMbC76zFr+sKrGGN0HoEWLxL2dmY2A=; b=Qp5nNAJ57sDDCIxVYa9tiwNdLgXtHuGtqEfqvNy94WN5E72xaWmZuFKRgc7LZsZjrF fHA8d/uOi5eEXTUFWVJb8RLEqX8EYxjBodTVeGShtPdiHDSG4kC5RCAgvxyov2OYqNDt GKvKmDG1zSuGI1ECpF1wolqheZ2v5uPy/JNcs= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; b=fOPDp0O++PIG+a+HgCKbXuTEVwnyP2B5wc9EbZmJSD9OhdEUC98S5On2AdnmSDYtAh QcAXtHt0KtF2piKBjaQsOZNHqAByvabBYOYgT5vPbhuNdArn/KWvcQvI+sxI3zle6Qhp ikEbQ/FrQl8t7aFMLK2bkh1i0IPTsgOUR0Cqk= Original-Received: by 10.204.25.71 with SMTP id y7mr3799530bkb.67.1254735581408; Mon, 05 Oct 2009 02:39:41 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <70c362c8-9d38-4ac0-9e33-f110c7c844da@k13g2000prh.googlegroups.com> X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:68680 Archived-At: --0003255596b29dee4104752ce4b0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Xah Lee, You say this at your site: "This shortcut set is designed based on ergonomic principles". What about efficiency? I guess ergonomics and efficiency could be related. But not necessarily. On Sat, Oct 3, 2009 at 4:56 PM, Xah Lee wrote: > i've been a professional qwerty typist hired for data entry for 1+ > year in early 1990s. > > I've been a dvorak touch typist since ~1993. > > Started to use emacs, and daily, since 1998. > > So, my emacs experience is all dvorak, and it's all good. > > if you are thinking some sort of dvorak for typing and qwerty for > hotkeys, don't do that. > > there are quite a few pages about dvorak and emacs... how much time > did you google? > > if you want to try dvorak, just switch to the layout in your OS, and > use emacs as is. That's the best way. > > a lot people uses dvorak with emacs too... too lazy to cite them here. > You can find them on blogs...etc. Try to spend a hour web search, > you'll find probably more info or blogs, comments, etc that will take > more than 4 hours to read, at least. > > i have written quite a lot on the subject myself... you can read: > > =E2=80=A2 Xah's Emacs Tutorial > http://xahlee.org/emacs/emacs.html > > =E2=80=A2 All About Keyboards, Keyboard Layouts, Shortcuts, Macros > http://xahlee.org/Periodic_dosage_dir/keyboarding.html > > Xah > =E2=88=91 http://xahlee.org/ > > =E2=98=84 > > On Oct 3, 7:58 am, Johan Andersson wrote: > > Hi! > > > > I've been thinking for a while about testing Dvorak in Emacs (or Svorak > for > > me since I'm from Sweden). Before I started I out, I googled a bit abou= t > > "emacs dvorak", but to my suprise got really few hits about this. So I > > thought I'd ask here. > > > > First off I found out that you could do *C-\ english-dvorak RET*, which > > would activate Dvorak but still keep the the Emacs keybindings (So that > you > > don't have to type C-l to go to the previous line). But that does not > help > > me all the way, since I want to use Svorak. And by only switching the > Xorg > > keyboard layout to Svorak, I'd still have to somehow remap all > keybindings > > in Emacs. > > > > So the question is basically: How do I get Svorak working in Emacs? And > do > > any of you even use Dvorak at all? I mean Emacs users often use Emacs > > because you can do things really fast, so I tought that many Emacs user= s > > would use Dvorak. > > > > Thanks! > --0003255596b29dee4104752ce4b0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Xah Lee, You say this at your site: "This shortcut set is designed bas= ed on ergonomic principles". What about efficiency? I guess ergonomics= and efficiency could be related. But not necessarily.

On Sat, Oct 3, 2009 at 4:56 PM, Xah Lee <xahlee@gmail.com> wrote:
i've been a professional qwerty typist hired for data entry for 1+
year in early 1990s.

I've been a dvorak touch typist since ~1993.

Started to use emacs, and daily, since 1998.

So, my emacs experience is all dvorak, and it's all good.

if you are thinking some sort of dvorak for typing and qwerty for
hotkeys, don't do that.

there are quite a few pages about dvorak and emacs... how much time
did you google?

if you want to try dvorak, just switch to the layout in your OS, and
use emacs as is. That's the best way.

a lot people uses dvorak with emacs too... too lazy to cite them here.
You can find them on blogs...etc. Try to spend a hour web search,
you'll find probably more info or blogs, comments, etc that will take more than 4 hours to read, at least.

i have written quite a lot on the subject myself... you can read:

=E2=80=A2 Xah's Emacs Tutorial
=C2=A0http://xahlee.org/emacs/emacs.html

=E2=80=A2 All About Keyboards, Keyboard Layouts, Shortcuts, Macros =C2=A0http://xahlee.org/Periodic_dosage_dir/keyboarding.html=

=C2=A0Xah
=E2=88=91 http://xahlee.or= g/

=E2=98=84

On Oct 3, 7:58 am, Johan Andersson <johan.rej...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi!
>
> I've been thinking for a while about testing Dvorak in Emacs (or S= vorak for
> me since I'm from Sweden). Before I started I out, I googled a bit= about
> "emacs dvorak", but to my suprise got really few hits about = this. So I
> thought I'd ask here.
>
> First off I found out that you could do *C-\ english-dvorak RET*, whic= h
> would activate Dvorak but still keep the the Emacs keybindings (So tha= t you
> don't have to type C-l to go to the previous line). But that does = not help
> me all the way, since I want to use Svorak. And by only switching the = Xorg
> keyboard layout to Svorak, I'd still have to somehow remap all key= bindings
> in Emacs.
>
> So the question is basically: How do I get Svorak working in Emacs? An= d do
> any of you even use Dvorak at all? I mean Emacs users often use Emacs<= br> > because you can do things really fast, so I tought that many Emacs use= rs
> would use Dvorak.
>
> Thanks!

--0003255596b29dee4104752ce4b0--