From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: chad Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Apologia for bzr Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2014 14:13:28 -0800 Message-ID: <929DF82A-EF65-415B-84E1-46F23057CDB7@gmail.com> References: <20140103152117.GA16679@c3po> <20140104082857.GA22010@thyrsus.com> <20140105205645.GA12781@thyrsus.com> <87r48m2is1.fsf@mid.deneb.enyo.de> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.1 \(1827\)) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1388960028 9557 80.91.229.3 (5 Jan 2014 22:13:48 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2014 22:13:48 +0000 (UTC) Cc: esr@thyrsus.com, toby-dated-1389972095.0848dd@dr-qubit.org, Richard Stallman , EMACS development team To: Florian Weimer Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Jan 05 23:13:54 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1VzvxB-0008MB-JD for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 05 Jan 2014 23:13:53 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:59599 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VzvxB-0001Or-3h for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 05 Jan 2014 17:13:53 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:40553) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Vzvx3-0001Ep-7x for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 05 Jan 2014 17:13:50 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Vzvwx-0007Gw-Ld for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 05 Jan 2014 17:13:45 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-pb0-x234.google.com ([2607:f8b0:400e:c01::234]:41453) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Vzvwr-0007GO-Kz; Sun, 05 Jan 2014 17:13:33 -0500 Original-Received: by mail-pb0-f52.google.com with SMTP id uo5so17681337pbc.25 for ; Sun, 05 Jan 2014 14:13:32 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=content-type:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=HKMxkXLbX1Hg+fGUhij2d8I4UKxlGMJKYutLEzK/ecs=; b=1KBtQBrPgrHfO6YV6u28GP9Tx0EKNa6nryPxywlKntwGcyjcNL/Pnp9NdymgIq/DtA vdfdgsK6m0oNnH4fhGrS2aYbufb/iCvpXFnpiO4Np8Ov0O0jDnz2rIQArnMZK/5bbDoS iR0eMgiio8DsxRfqx7od+3clzp5ihUWBf03doF6oNyXImfBDbJcPZolFBNrb50sl5r5F BFhaU3DaJyQUM2/ckui0aT0up06lw4lWyYuLRUWTYhlP03Ssf6zg+/YAvGn8b1hcUmRH gMwoZyRwGqY+k5Qir1Svwqa33z8P51JeuAy6sRg8X0OdGtWLEWX5IYTOciPfKJQMPUDn OkDw== X-Received: by 10.68.197.129 with SMTP id iu1mr119383436pbc.139.1388960012034; Sun, 05 Jan 2014 14:13:32 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: from [10.0.1.36] (174-24-200-43.tukw.qwest.net. [174.24.200.43]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id vn10sm124055186pbc.21.2014.01.05.14.13.29 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Sun, 05 Jan 2014 14:13:30 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <87r48m2is1.fsf@mid.deneb.enyo.de> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1827) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:400e:c01::234 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:167403 Archived-At: On 05 Jan 2014, at 13:58, Florian Weimer wrote: > Probably. But exposing windows as tabs by default could be both > familiar and a bit helpful. Relocating the modeline and minibuffer to > the top of the frame might increase familiarity as well. Windows as tabs by default would almost certainly improve familiarity by = default. The problem with moving windows to tabs is that you need to = treat ephemeral buffers differently - you don=92t want completions or = help hidden on another tab. If anyone is willing to cross the Rubicon, = the various gui vim clients do a good job with this kind of = tabs-and-windows. On the other hand, I=92ve showed emacs to a very large number of new = college students over the years, both programmers and non. The = keybindings are confusing to many people. People who accidentally = split-window are very confused. Nobody was ever confused by the location = of the modeline, and it=92s normal for common apps like web browsers to = have a =93Status Bar=94 down there.=20 ~Chad=