From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Alexandre Garreau Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Verticality and future of display engine and lines (bis) [Was: Re: RTL lines] Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2021 09:12:38 +0200 Message-ID: <9299581.M7KuVC2vgW@galex-713.eu> References: <3519414.WYFCpekPd3@galex-713.eu> <7275793.Xk2IM2Q3GM@galex-713.eu> <83wnlxtzby.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="22567"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Oct 28 09:13:41 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mfzbY-0005ex-UO for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 28 Oct 2021 09:13:40 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:47734 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mfzbX-00082J-0o for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 28 Oct 2021 03:13:39 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:48436) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mfzag-0007zy-89 for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 28 Oct 2021 03:12:47 -0400 Original-Received: from portable.galex-713.eu ([2a00:5884:8305::1]:49788 helo=galex-713.eu) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mfzad-0008Nr-ST; Thu, 28 Oct 2021 03:12:45 -0400 Original-Received: from gal by galex-713.eu with local (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mfzaY-0001Og-KW; Thu, 28 Oct 2021 09:12:38 +0200 In-Reply-To: <83wnlxtzby.fsf@gnu.org> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:5884:8305::1; envelope-from=galex-713@galex-713.eu; helo=galex-713.eu X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "help-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.help:134251 Archived-At: Le jeudi 28 octobre 2021, 08:53:21 CEST Eli Zaretskii a =C3=A9crit : > > From: Alexandre Garreau > > Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2021 21:54:11 +0200 > >=20 > > > So you are not only talking about a revolution in the display > > > engine, > > > you are also talking about a revolution in scrolling commands. > >=20 > > That=E2=80=99s less than half a dozen of commands and the change is tri= vial, > > it=E2=80=99s just level of abstraction. >=20 > I guess you are unaware, or perhaps forgot, that the display engine > itself scrolls the window when it finds that necessary. oh=E2=80=A6 but still that=E2=80=99s a few functions right=E2=80=A6? I hope= =E2=80=A6 like =E2=80=9Cscroll down=E2=80=9D=20 and =E2=80=9Cscroll up=E2=80=9D calls that should be conditionally changed = to =E2=80=9Cscroll=20 forward=E2=80=9D and =E2=80=9Cscroll backward=E2=80=9D > > > I don't see any excess height of the lines, I think if you see that > > > in > > > Emacs, you have a faulty font or something. > >=20 > > Did you really look at the screenshots? don=E2=80=99t you see all the b= lank > > between the lines? >=20 > I'm talking about what I see in my Emacs session where I read your > email. If any Emacs session displays that as you describe, that's > either a font configuration problem or some rendering bug that isn't > present in my build of Emacs. But did you look at the screenshots? doesn=E2=80=99t your gnus support simp= le and=20 direct display of mime attachments? > > > Showing just one diacritic is TRT in this case. Anything else is a > > > display bug. > >=20 > > So how do you display languages which *need* several diacritics? >=20 > Not every arbitrary combination of the diacritics on the same base > character is valid. Lumping the same diacritic several times on the > same base character certainly isn't. For valid combination of the > diacritics, we will display them the way the font and the shaping > engine (HarfBuzz) tell us to do. oh ok > IOW, find a real-life case with several diacritics on the same > character, and then let's talk. The example you provided makes no > sense in real life, and the correct reaction of the Emacs display > engine to that nonsensical example is to show just one diacritic. > > > > > Btw it would be nice if emacs supported such tweaking of > > > > directionality > > > > (although my friend wouldn=E2=80=99t benefit from it since he=E2=80= =99s a user of > > > > vim, > > > > but I=E2=80=99m pretty sure that would be a point in advertising em= acs to > > > > him). > > >=20 > > > You can have this with special bidirectional formatting control > > > characters, like LRO and RLO. Emacs supports them. > >=20 > > Yes I know but I mean to have that systematically without having to > > manually enter them at each script change (and avoiding to put them in > > a possibly shared file with people with different opinions regarding > > directionality) >=20 > Using those formatting controls _is_ the systematic way of changing > the text directionality. Emacs is not a playground for arbitrarily > messing with the text layout, it follows relevant standards of > layout. And in those standards, the _only_ way of controlling the > text directionality is by using directionality controls and > overrides. >=20 > You could, of course, go overboard and modify the basic properties of > the characters, which Emacs holds in char-tables. Ohhhhh thank you! I should then look into that > But that is not > recommended, well as you said that=E2=80=99s non-standard > and I'm not even sure I understand why would you like to > do something like that. I already said it was to make reading more comfortable without having to=20 lump from one part of the text to another, read, and yet again go there to= =20 resume reading, so the direction of reading is always consistent (and=20 ideally to have even less jumping, one would need to use boustrophedon as=20 a script direction, but afaik no existing software supports that)