From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Drew Adams" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: RE: M-x custom: *PLEASE*, someone, have it build an INDEX (as in *info*) Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2010 20:55:59 -0800 Message-ID: <91FF4264F4304355B105169EF773404B@us.oracle.com> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1263877051 7637 80.91.229.12 (19 Jan 2010 04:57:31 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2010 04:57:31 +0000 (UTC) To: Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Jan 19 05:57:23 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1NX69b-0005md-EP for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 19 Jan 2010 05:57:23 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58016 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1NX69c-0002eC-52 for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Mon, 18 Jan 2010 23:57:24 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1NX69E-0002ds-4q for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 18 Jan 2010 23:57:00 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1NX69A-0002dX-0n for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 18 Jan 2010 23:56:59 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=52596 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1NX699-0002dU-Qk for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 18 Jan 2010 23:56:55 -0500 Original-Received: from acsinet11.oracle.com ([141.146.126.233]:35830) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1NX699-0008CZ-8b for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 18 Jan 2010 23:56:55 -0500 Original-Received: from rcsinet15.oracle.com (rcsinet15.oracle.com [148.87.113.117]) by acsinet11.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.2) with ESMTP id o0J4uluQ014762 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Tue, 19 Jan 2010 04:56:52 GMT Original-Received: from acsmt356.oracle.com (acsmt356.oracle.com [141.146.40.156]) by rcsinet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.1) with ESMTP id o0J4uk1R000684 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 2010 04:56:46 GMT Original-Received: from abhmt016.oracle.com by acsmt356.oracle.com with ESMTP id 1355249251263876941; Mon, 18 Jan 2010 20:55:41 -0800 Original-Received: from dradamslap1 (/141.144.224.25) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Mon, 18 Jan 2010 20:55:40 -0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 Thread-Index: AcqYt/m/24dqANLJQ+G3WtE/Oj+JmAABJw4w X-Source-IP: acsmt356.oracle.com [141.146.40.156] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090209.4B553B8F.0118:SCFMA4539814,ss=1,fgs=0 X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:71302 Archived-At: > > Unlike most everyone else, I find "custom" basically UNUSABLE. That is hardly an exceptional point of view. ;-) The Customize UI leaves a lot to be desired. The framework underlying the UI is actually pretty good, however - in particular, it provides typing. > > (Actually, I'd much prefer a super-LONG edit-options -- at least > > I could run M-x occur on it, see where things were. Well, `M-x edit-options' is certainly available. And it can be quite useful. > > This custom thing -- I have no idea where things are, how far > > down I have to go. > > > > Maybe if someone could code it to draw one HUGE tree (lying on its > > side, of course), but the current scheme doesn't work for me. > > > > So, an INDEX would help -- each one being a LINK to the thing > > it's about. Custom would make the index each time it started up. > > Why not `M-x apropos-variable' to generate the *Apropos* buffer as a > virtual index? Then click on one of the links to display the *Help* > buffer for any variable, which has a link to customize the variable. 1. Kevin's answer is a good one. The point is that you don't necessarily _want_ a HUGE tree of all options, just because there is a problem finding which options might be appropriate for some use. What you really want is a way to focus on the parts of the tree that might be of interest at the moment. How to do that is the real problem. One way to do it is by checking the option names, and `apropos-variable' lets you match names using a regexp (a substring is of course a trivial regexp). 2. Icicles can help here also. * Command `icicle-apropos-option' is similar to `apropos-variable', but before actually committing a regexp using `RET' you can just type it and use `S-TAB' to see what the matching options are (will be). At the same time, you can use `C-next' or `C-RET' to see the doc for any of the matching options. You can adjust the regexp on the fly until you see the options you want. IOW, WYSIWYG: change the regexp and see the matches immediately. Commit the regexp only when you've got something you want. * Rather than using a single fancy regexp, you can use multiple simple match patterns (regexps or substrings) to narrow down your search progressively, a piece at a time. If you're looking for an option whose name contains, say, both `buffer' and `window', but in either order, then just match both of those patterns. http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/Icicles_-_Progressive_Completion * Command `icicle-customize-apropos-options' is similar to `customize-apropos-options' but, like `icicle-apropos-option', you can adjust the regexp on the fly to see which options match. * Command `icicle-customize-apropos-options-of-type' is similar, but it lets you also specify the types of the options. That is, you can match not only against option names but also against their types: their type names or their type specs. http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/Icicles_-_Help_on_Candidates#OtherAproposCommands * If matching names and types isn't good enough then you can try matching terms that are used in doc strings. The standard Emacs command for this is `apropos-documentation'. Icicles command `icicle-vardoc' is similar, but you can use all of the features described above: on-the-fly matching, progressive refinement, help (doc) for individual matches. http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/Icicles_-_Multi-Completions HTH.