From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Drew Adams" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: Menu commands to M-x history? Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 09:21:11 -0700 Message-ID: <916D7A0558D14A809114127E47A21BB2@us.oracle.com> References: <87skgqu2ce.fsf@olgas.newt.com> <7432.1248236149@olgas.newt.com> <7dbe73ed0907221134o1a1fe024k353b1a9a61482041@mail.gmail.com> <9D1E3CE97BF4491E973F872B00D6277D@us.oracle.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1248714463 3980 80.91.229.12 (27 Jul 2009 17:07:43 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 17:07:43 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org, rms@gnu.org, 'Mathias Dahl' To: "'Lennart Borgman'" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Jul 27 19:07:35 2009 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1MVTfe-0003up-01 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 27 Jul 2009 19:07:31 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:33524 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1MVTfd-0006EP-9J for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 27 Jul 2009 13:07:29 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1MVSx6-000853-7f for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 27 Jul 2009 12:21:28 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1MVSx1-0007xv-AX for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 27 Jul 2009 12:21:27 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=44733 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1MVSx1-0007xl-2r for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 27 Jul 2009 12:21:23 -0400 Original-Received: from acsinet12.oracle.com ([141.146.126.234]:16705) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1MVSww-00062Z-82; Mon, 27 Jul 2009 12:21:18 -0400 Original-Received: from acsinet15.oracle.com (acsinet15.oracle.com [141.146.126.227]) by acsinet12.oracle.com (Switch-3.3.1/Switch-3.3.1) with ESMTP id n6RGKsYT016375 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 27 Jul 2009 16:20:55 GMT Original-Received: from abhmt007.oracle.com (abhmt007.oracle.com [141.146.116.16]) by acsinet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.3.1/Switch-3.3.1) with ESMTP id n6RGLOsQ019030; Mon, 27 Jul 2009 16:21:24 GMT Original-Received: from dradamslap1 (/130.35.178.194) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Mon, 27 Jul 2009 09:21:11 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 Thread-Index: AcoO0zCdRB93HOkAQNS6LYFSTUZP/QAANAIw X-Source-IP: abhmt007.oracle.com [141.146.116.16] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A010203.4A6DD3F8.0161:SCFSTAT5015188,ss=1,fgs=0 X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 1) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:113229 Archived-At: > Matthias said: > Quite often I execute the same M-x > command over and over again, doing something else in > between, and if what I did in between included executing > some menu commands I might be annoyed to have to step back > some extra steps in order to get at the command I want to run. > > exactly why is it useful to distinguish between commands started > from the menu and from M-x As someone else said, `M-x' is, well, for `M-x'-executed commands. That's important for users. It is why commands executed using key bindings are also not included in the history list. Besides this difference in intention (meaning of M-x), there is the difference in noise level. If you had to search a history for every command you ever executed, including every key you pressed (C-f, C-k,...), the search history would be much less useful. So, I hear you say, filter out insignificant commands - commands such as `self-insert-command' and `forward-char'. Then where do you draw the line? One person's aid is another person's noise. The current criterion of recording the commands actually entered using `M-x' is a good one, and should be kept. Access to additional commands should be optional, on demand. > Drew, I think you see what I mean. This reasoning just gets overlay > complicated to actually use IMO. Why? The only change is to provide some key to let you access the additional commands. Icicles uses `C-M-pause' for that, which is admittedly exotic. ;-) But Emacs could choose a simpler key. (Icicles has lots of minibuffer key bindings, and this one is less simple because it is not as important as some others. That doesn't mean the idea isn't simple.) > Just putting the menu commands in the M-x history (+ displaying a > comment about it) is simple, easy to understand and make the coupling > between M-x and the menus visible to new users too. See above. Such a coupling is not helpful as the default behavior. > And it also have the advantage that it is much easier to redo > commands that are rather deep down in the menus. As opposed to what? Easier to redo than what alternative - using the menu again? If that's what you mean, then we agree: It can help users if we also provide completion for commands originally accessed using a menu. The question we seem to disagree about is whether those commands should be available for completion _by default_, that is, as part of the normal `M-x' command history.