From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Per_Starb=E4ck?= Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Displaying bytes (was: Inadequate documentation of silly characters on screen.) Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 22:34:18 +0100 Message-ID: <912155b0911231334s2b52e8eq864251c9aed386b3@mail.gmail.com> References: <20091119155848.GB1314@muc.de> <87aayiihe9.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> <20091119180848.GE1314@muc.de> <47325.130.55.118.19.1258658705.squirrel@webmail.lanl.gov> <20091119212550.GG1314@muc.de> <87my2ign8u.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1259012971 22431 80.91.229.12 (23 Nov 2009 21:49:31 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 21:49:31 +0000 (UTC) Cc: dak@gnu.org, Stefan Monnier , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: rms@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Nov 23 22:49:23 2009 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1NCgmg-0007H3-Nw for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 23 Nov 2009 22:49:23 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:33147 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1NCgmf-0005mK-Oq for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 23 Nov 2009 16:49:21 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1NCgYG-0002Os-UO for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 23 Nov 2009 16:34:28 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1NCgYC-0002LL-JV for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 23 Nov 2009 16:34:28 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=55543 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1NCgYC-0002Kg-2N for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 23 Nov 2009 16:34:24 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-fx0-f213.google.com ([209.85.220.213]:39734) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1NCgY9-0002O2-MH; Mon, 23 Nov 2009 16:34:21 -0500 Original-Received: by fxm5 with SMTP id 5so6708198fxm.8 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 2009 13:34:19 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=3Bg5dd3K1Nr1/BAhJMkvnjsbp0QvU93t3fqYpVdXr4c=; b=QDpibIw/7rrujmd4nj2ZI5VPKLjeG7KgwqOQIz9sfSN1K3nJ6iHX41w70uzlwOw6eQ bGNCAUdsoksbzduJG3CPpvwsxIBxxeXCeOHOw+gd9kIaiDDMNT1r5g/gmhS5McPBbvAf mLtmCkcIW/0YL7f0qMflHktG08V2V9Ogk2Y3U= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=hzKcc8rGXVW4tNkqE8LgN0RoaQ3dcEIqc+pPPUhvhOQnA5/I5Bf1zGqJpaDSVIA+J+ wMuRRQo8i31ohg8rD6JzIVnIXtAh0gUP0QCCFYd18E/hIqHf2n0zQAkg9gK+SXHnQbmI BfCsaRQzGBdfV03QBDlPyswOdkXqFxGe3WcDM= Original-Received: by 10.223.19.200 with SMTP id c8mr883968fab.55.1259012059102; Mon, 23 Nov 2009 13:34:19 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:117633 Archived-At: 2009/11/23 Richard Stallman : > What are the situations where a user is likely to see these stray > bytes. =A0When visiting a binary file, of course; but in that situation, > nobody will be surprised or disappointed. =A0So what are the other > cases, Sometimes when Emacs can't guess the coding system. $ od -c euro.txt 0000000 T h a t c o s t s 200 1 7 . \n 0000020 $ emacs euro.txt This is really a windows-1252 file and the strange character is supposed to be a Euro sign. For me, with no particular setup to make Emacs expect windows-1252 files that shows in emacs as "That costs \20017." with raw-text-unix. > and what might the user really want instead? Does it mean the > user probably wants to do M-x decode-coding-region? If so, can we find a= way > to give the user that hint? In that case revert-buffer-with-coding-system. Ideally I'd like Emacs to ask directly when opening the file in such a case, if it can't determine anything better than raw-bytes. At least if the mode (like text-mode here) indicates that it shouldn't be a binary file.