From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: Jean-Christophe Helary Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Convert some files from outline-mode to org-mode Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2020 00:31:52 +0900 Message-ID: <90B6F755-D25B-40A2-AA57-0C6BFFF428AA@traduction-libre.org> References: <20200426172206.GC18629@ACM> <87y2qhnc9a.fsf@gmail.com> <87imhlwg19.fsf@gmail.com> <07fb1041-5dc5-4930-b36b-25f857642614@default> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.80.23.2.2\)) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="30419"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" To: Emacs developers Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon Apr 27 17:33:20 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jT5l2-0007oS-LN for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 17:33:20 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:51628 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jT5l1-0005Fo-It for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 11:33:19 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:38448) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jT5jn-0003Mn-QZ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 11:32:04 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jT5jm-0007Cm-FN for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 11:32:03 -0400 Original-Received: from relay7-d.mail.gandi.net ([217.70.183.200]:38925) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jT5jl-0007BW-Oa for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 11:32:02 -0400 X-Originating-IP: 128.53.235.90 Original-Received: from [10.0.1.13] (pl12634.ag0304.nttpc.ne.jp [128.53.235.90]) (Authenticated sender: jean.christophe.helary@traduction-libre.org) by relay7-d.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 5F56020011 for ; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 15:31:56 +0000 (UTC) X-Priority: 3 In-Reply-To: <07fb1041-5dc5-4930-b36b-25f857642614@default> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.80.23.2.2) Received-SPF: pass client-ip=217.70.183.200; envelope-from=jean.christophe.helary@traduction-libre.org; helo=relay7-d.mail.gandi.net X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/04/27 11:31:58 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 3.11 and newer [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 217.70.183.200 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:247937 Archived-At: > On Apr 28, 2020, at 0:23, Drew Adams wrote: >=20 >> The point being that yes, hopefully Emacs users can find their way to >> a menu or a help buffer; but as org-mode shows we can aim for >> something slightly more ergonomic. >>=20 >> If I have to whip these cheatsheets out every time I want to hide a >> heading (which I used to do before I finally bound >> outline-toggle-children to TAB), I might as well do away with >> keybindings and just M-x outline-hide- TAB *squint* (or install >> which-key and C-c *squint*). >=20 > To be clear (but I know you understood), I was > saying that menus, `C-h m', etc. mean that one > doesn't _need to remember_ all key bindings for > a mode. They serve as a quick (yes) reminder. Yes but the issue here is that the apparent similitude between outline = and org makes it difficult to know that one file is in outline and not = in org and thus creates unnecessary friction that has to be solved by = such reference. There would not be such friction if outline proposed a = more reasonable navigation system. Jean-Christophe Helary ----------------------------------------------- http://mac4translators.blogspot.com @brandelune