From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Drew Adams" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#12621: Emacs 24.1 crashing on Windows 7 Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2012 12:41:19 -0800 Message-ID: <909C0D44C3864106A12B04D2F3410D44@us.oracle.com> References: <1355394162.15171.YahooMailNeo@web171306.mail.ir2.yahoo.com><83ip85omkv.fsf@gnu.org><1355424070.10437.YahooMailNeo@web171305.mail.ir2.yahoo.com><82hanognh8.fsf_-_@gmail.com> <83obhvn31t.fsf@gnu.org> <83y5gzqe0r.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1355604129 11217 80.91.229.3 (15 Dec 2012 20:42:09 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2012 20:42:09 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 12621@debbugs.gnu.org, andrewjmoreton@gmail.com To: "'Eli Zaretskii'" , Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Dec 15 21:42:22 2012 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1TjyYn-0006Pi-Uo for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; 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Sat, 15 Dec 2012 20:41:28 GMT Original-Received: from abhmt118.oracle.com (abhmt118.oracle.com [141.146.116.70]) by acsmt357.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id qBFKfQg1009115; Sat, 15 Dec 2012 14:41:26 -0600 Original-Received: from dradamslap1 (/71.202.147.44) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Sat, 15 Dec 2012 12:41:27 -0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <83y5gzqe0r.fsf@gnu.org> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6157 Thread-Index: Ac3a/1RVGvazeDTOTCy+Kz9ZhIuZwAAA2kPw X-Source-IP: ucsinet21.oracle.com [156.151.31.93] X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 140.186.70.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:68585 Archived-At: > > I don't think a piece of proprietary software, with known > > spyware, DRM and back doors, deserves respect. > > Well, actually, it does, for several technical achievements that I can > only dream of when I work on modern GNU/Linux systems. But I won't > say a word more about that, because this is off-topic here. Off-topic technically, perhaps, but not off-topic wrt the OP's feelings and intention indicated in the bug report. Aside from the question of whether MS deserves respect or whether MS Windows deserves some respect as software, there is the neglected point that the OP made in characterizing the anti-"win" campaign as "puerile". I think that raises a reasonable question, and one that perhaps is not completely independent of asking how effective such a campaign is or can be. I would agree with the OP that it smacks of childishness, even if that is not the intent. It also seems a bit old-hat/been-there-done-that at this point. It reminds me of those who still like to call users "lusers" or "losers". Kind of an infantile joke, and an old one. A joke you might have laughed at the first time you heard it back in 1968, but one you no longer find very funny. Quite the opposite - users deserve respect, even, or especially, when they are ignorant. Of course, poking fun at things that are evil or regressive can sometimes be effective and progressive, even sometimes when the poking fun is infantile. But it's a good question for GNU to (re)consider perhaps at this point: what's the point/effect of the anti-"win" campaign now?