From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: =?UTF-8?Q?Andreas_R=c3=b6hler?= Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Spaces rather than tabs by a major mode hook Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2022 13:55:12 +0200 Message-ID: <90592a81-c690-34c9-ddd5-619c9cb76ce7@easy-emacs.de> References: <83r13vy4nf.fsf@gnu.org> <83leu3y0hs.fsf@gnu.org> <83h74rxze0.fsf@gnu.org> <83bkuzxvur.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="9980"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/91.9.1 To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon Jun 13 14:08:46 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1o0is9-0002P8-GI for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 13 Jun 2022 14:08:45 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:49640 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1o0is8-00015a-2y for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 13 Jun 2022 08:08:44 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:39936) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1o0if9-0002KA-QC for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 13 Jun 2022 07:55:19 -0400 Original-Received: from mout.kundenserver.de ([212.227.126.135]:53923) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1o0if7-0004sk-OT for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 13 Jun 2022 07:55:19 -0400 Original-Received: from [192.168.178.54] ([89.247.171.231]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue012 [212.227.15.167]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1MOV26-1oNMQJ1N8Q-00PthW for ; Mon, 13 Jun 2022 13:55:13 +0200 Content-Language: en-US In-Reply-To: X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:WUDnMntuMlJKESZvcCXqFJXqbmYImbiJdOnsS/NAGtJF7poM+em CoHVjBDP/j1d2fXfZMmHReBfL1CLmQps/LJRpDMB4WK8R7rujfMB3D3W4wdw/j5TPRQ1u9P LIkpd3JquvQbEo7YKTbafZT/rTixpiwoXtahJRKbMwAP89obQ4jRL/AlUFWOI7RYafmwZ6y OP4aRmpM1B5d7ju/yFdBQ== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:Ozmur9+HfYY=:tAiCTDGCitJrMH7Z7hDp6Z p5fe6aY8iw+4Sbget2h0444+yY+ux78b2gHSws9IRA6MwpF5WO1VQMSzq9pEL4cbnOYKNZnGT gnOgJKAB/Ef88tTGohCFK5TlXmSp3HGZ8iPj3IPbCICi78JgvBAoYvnrFH/jM5Fxw5ATnQq1i xpyh+MEAhVL9joqQ/HuqWKsz+XlEve6XuZ3iIIClD8bx78ERPadpYPIQDADmMElsm8AM3hPcS 56qq2BmOSavOdnjrS184fjET0NClUekog14RNMrH36uXNu1siPmQVc5sriq0paRmHpLHI+Icx 21gV+2G9VnPrrYkZJYseq8II93oTpfL+8mgI//j0Z0GoL4qPi7YB5JXcwa8tznvEfDI2D/Jeq I5nbd1wFLh2KcNsV2ETuN4N3cP0kWIHcucJYjF+3lYOocsCsbinuSnM4uKBfkQGGQe2kYW0IE zoEu4XnCSfw1xGlLbFhnigwJrsKqzitL82okLIcVviWtVDQHCWuLpmk1KrSutVpgTYOVQHqNl M4wva1BMmi/97wK6UkcZDyqd4NwbDfqr0Xw4/JNw/V2djWDNcEaY4u6QARpZY7LI5AiJnzgVk 0N49Ue6jnmAuPzP6bdHXdLf66SFBe9jhHT71iBmmytd28HZ02eeyDroHDRFW371qOvEBbOgRk ruMnJNmTFkhokRon3sX++V5MfPSkq6jrqS6w9w8Fz2yDOgztscPZYrrEFcfwCBEFJXtTD4xrN /pAM7a0wgLCLWnfUKsqwKpcgpkvTE99URRqX76RCz7iKiFXXnLL+HMGACrM= Received-SPF: none client-ip=212.227.126.135; envelope-from=andreas.roehler@easy-emacs.de; helo=mout.kundenserver.de X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "help-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.help:137785 Archived-At: Am 11.06.22 um 22:02 schrieb goncholden: > ------- Original Message ------- > On Saturday, June 11th, 2022 at 11:50 PM, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > >>> Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2022 11:15:59 +0000 >>> From: goncholdengoncholden@protonmail.com >>> Cc:help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org >>> >>>> Emacs doesn't impose any style. By "style" I meant how many columns >>>> should each construct be indented. In Emacs, you can set all the >>>> parameters of the style one by one via the menu I mentioned, and you >>>> can do that according to the style used by whoever wrote these files. >>>> Then you save your customizations, and Emacs will henceforth >>>> automatically indent according to the style you defined by your >>>> customizations. >>> Let me rephrase again. Emacs imposes indentation rules by requiring said customisations. >> >> Emacs requires you to customize, once, the indentation so that it >> could thereafter help you by indenting everything automatically to >> suit the indentation style. That's a win by any measure. > That the problem you are taking ages to understand. "Emacs requires you to customize", the origin of the problem. > >>> The question about how many columns should each construct be indented, has no answer. >> >> It should be possible to answer that question by just examining the >> file you posted. > No, because there are thousands of files. That was just an example to show how emacs takes over the file, disallowing tabs and certain formatting because it assumes that fortran files have a single style. Not true. > >> Alternatively, you could just reindent the entire file according to >> the defaults, like this: >> >> C-x h >> C-M-\ >> >> and then keep making changes without any customizations. > That would destroy the possibilities of easily detecting code changes. Only want emacs to recognise that one cannot impose a style on legacy code. It should be able to go along with no style. > > The mantra that things can always be customised implies observance to a single formatting scheme. Legacy code does not even subscribe to that. They only had simple editors. If I introduce tabs with > "C-q TAB", all those tabs get removed by emacs as soon as one presses return at the end of the line. > > Emacs is acting like a dictator. > Hmm, seems you stumbled over a mistake.  That's what I call "electric-indent-mode turned on by default". While freedom obviously doesn't prevent mistakes, --given also the possibility I'm wrong in this judgement--, you hardly find a tool such easily to tweak along your wishes like Emacs. So, don't give up. >