From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#18844: Trunk: typing in minibuffer gets spuriously echoed in mode line Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2014 09:32:45 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <8dc436e5-4075-44e3-bc54-09ee4e8a0faf@default> References: <20141026155332.GB4397@acm.acm> <87mw8iddn4.fsf@violet.siamics.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1414341207 9633 80.91.229.3 (26 Oct 2014 16:33:27 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2014 16:33:27 +0000 (UTC) To: 18844@debbugs.gnu.org Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Oct 26 17:33:21 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1XiQkq-0005g5-Bv for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sun, 26 Oct 2014 17:33:20 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:57365 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XiQkp-000073-QD for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sun, 26 Oct 2014 12:33:19 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:49437) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XiQkg-00006r-3r for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 26 Oct 2014 12:33:17 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XiQkY-0001Uo-RG for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 26 Oct 2014 12:33:10 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.43]:44033) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XiQkY-0001Uk-Oq for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 26 Oct 2014 12:33:02 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1XiQkY-0006rP-0k for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 26 Oct 2014 12:33:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2014 16:33:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 18844 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 18844-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B18844.141434117926360 (code B ref 18844); Sun, 26 Oct 2014 16:33:01 +0000 Original-Received: (at 18844) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Oct 2014 16:32:59 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36131 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1XiQkU-0006r4-CA for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 26 Oct 2014 12:32:58 -0400 Original-Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com ([141.146.126.69]:27193) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1XiQkR-0006qr-BV for 18844@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 26 Oct 2014 12:32:55 -0400 Original-Received: from acsinet22.oracle.com (acsinet22.oracle.com [141.146.126.238]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id s9QGWn1K029526 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK) for <18844@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sun, 26 Oct 2014 16:32:49 GMT Original-Received: from aserz7021.oracle.com (aserz7021.oracle.com [141.146.126.230]) by acsinet22.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id s9QGWl3L001595 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for <18844@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sun, 26 Oct 2014 16:32:48 GMT Original-Received: from abhmp0013.oracle.com (abhmp0013.oracle.com [141.146.116.19]) by aserz7021.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id s9QGWlTQ023777 for <18844@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sun, 26 Oct 2014 16:32:47 GMT In-Reply-To: <87mw8iddn4.fsf@violet.siamics.net> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.8.2 (807160) [OL 12.0.6691.5000 (x86)] X-Source-IP: acsinet22.oracle.com [141.146.126.238] X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 140.186.70.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:95111 > > -Q. Type in "M-: (setq" and wait ~half a second. The word > > "setq" is spuriously echoed at the start of the mode line. >=20 > > This happens on both ttys and GUIs, at least on GNU systems. It happens on MS Windows also. =20 > =09By a chance, does it still happen if you disable > =09global-eldoc-mode? That gets rid of it; thanks. Please turn this OFF by default. This was pushed onto the trunk before any real discussion. Limited discussion ensued - about the missing doc for it - AFTER the fact: http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2014-01/msg01771.html And in that discussion, Stefan said clearly that "this change in behavior was not intended." There was no real discussion of this mode-line takeover. As Eli said there, "I don't think turning this on by default in eval-minibuffer was ever seriously discussed." And Stefan concurred, saying that the only discussion was "about making eldoc work in the minibuffer, not about enabling it." But after that, in the same thread, Stefan said, "Feel free to add it as soon as we re-open the trunk for changes." Just add it - no discussion. Dommage. Someone's favorite shiny new toy should not be foisted on all users as changed default behavior. It took decades for `transient-mark-mode' to finally be turned on by default, after *much* discussion in emacs-devel. Should have happened a lot sooner, yes(!) - but still only after a thorough discussion. `delete-selection-mode' as default is still probably years off. Why should this mode-line takeover be imposed suddenly with no real discussion? Never would have happened in "the good ol' days". It is not hard for a user to turn such behavior ON, if desired. Why should it now be the default? Have you seen zillions of users demanding that this be the default behavior or something? Did you take a user poll, as RMS would likely advise? What is behind this, besides someone's desire to impose personal preferences on everyone? Let those who want to try it turn it on and experiment with it. Maybe after a few years we can discuss whether it merits being turned on by default, if many people clearly are using it at that point. Turning it on now without discussion is premature and anti-user/community.