bug#43463: 27.1; Elisp manual error, printed text in Interaction buffer

bug#43463: 27.1; Elisp manual error, printed text in Interaction buffer

[dalanicolai]

In section 1.3.4 of the Elisp manual (version 27.1), it says that
printed text from evaluated code in an Interactive buffer (e.g.
*scratch*) is inserted into that buffer, but this is not true when I
evaluate such code in a non-customized vanilla Emacs.


In GNU Emacs 27.1 (build 1, x86_64-redhat-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version
3.24.21, cairo version 1.16.0)
 of 2020-08-20 built on buildvm-x86-24.iad2.fedoraproject.org
Windowing system distributor 'Fedora Project', version 11.0.12008000
System Description: Fedora 32 (Workstation Edition)

Recent messages:

hello [2 times]
Created wiki link.
Auto-saving...done
Quit
user-error: First node in file [4 times]
Quit [3 times]
ESC ESC M-1 is undefined
Quit
funcall-interactively: End of buffer [2 times]

Configured using:
 'configure --build=x86_64-redhat-linux-gnu
 --host=x86_64-redhat-linux-gnu --program-prefix=
 --disable-dependency-tracking --prefix=/usr --exec-prefix=/usr
 --bindir=/usr/bin --sbindir=/usr/sbin --sysconfdir=/etc
 --datadir=/usr/share --includedir=/usr/include --libdir=/usr/lib64
 --libexecdir=/usr/libexec --localstatedir=/var
 --sharedstatedir=/var/lib --mandir=/usr/share/man
 --infodir=/usr/share/info --with-dbus --with-gif --with-jpeg --with-
png
 --with-rsvg --with-tiff --with-xft --with-xpm --with-x-toolkit=gtk3
 --with-gpm=no --with-xwidgets --with-modules --with-harfbuzz
 --with-cairo --with-json build_alias=x86_64-redhat-linux-gnu
 host_alias=x86_64-redhat-linux-gnu 'CFLAGS=-DMAIL_USE_LOCKF -O2 -g
 -pipe -Wall -Werror=format-security -Wp,-D_FORTIFY_SOURCE=2
 -Wp,-D_GLIBCXX_ASSERTIONS -fexceptions -fstack-protector-strong
 -grecord-gcc-switches -specs=/usr/lib/rpm/redhat/redhat-hardened-cc1
 -specs=/usr/lib/rpm/redhat/redhat-annobin-cc1 -m64 -mtune=generic
 -fasynchronous-unwind-tables -fstack-clash-protection -fcf-protection'
 LDFLAGS=-Wl,-z,relro
 PKG_CONFIG_PATH=:/usr/lib64/pkgconfig:/usr/share/pkgconfig'

Configured features:
XPM JPEG TIFF GIF PNG RSVG CAIRO SOUND DBUS GSETTINGS GLIB NOTIFY
INOTIFY ACL LIBSELINUX GNUTLS LIBXML2 FREETYPE HARFBUZZ M17N_FLT LIBOTF
ZLIB TOOLKIT_SCROLL_BARS GTK3 X11 XDBE XIM MODULES THREADS XWIDGETS
LIBSYSTEMD JSON PDUMPER GMP

Important settings:
  value of $LANG: en_US.UTF-8
  value of $XMODIFIERS: @im=ibus
  locale-coding-system: utf-8-unix

Major mode: Info

Minor modes in effect:
  Info-breadcrumbs-in-mode-line-mode: t
  global-evil-surround-mode: t
  evil-surround-mode: t
  pdf-occur-global-minor-mode: t
  global-git-gutter+-mode: t
  evil-escape-mode: t
  global-display-line-numbers-mode: t
  projectile-mode: t
  recentf-mode: t
  eval-sexp-fu-flash-mode: t
  show-smartparens-global-mode: t
  yas-global-mode: t
  yas-minor-mode: t
  winner-mode: t
  winum-mode: t
  pupo-mode: t
  global-vi-tilde-fringe-mode: t
  spaceline-helm-mode: t
  save-place-mode: t
  savehist-mode: t
  persp-mode: t
  global-magit-file-mode: t
  global-git-commit-mode: t
  async-bytecomp-package-mode: t
  global-hl-todo-mode: t
  flycheck-pos-tip-mode: t
  global-flycheck-mode: t
  global-fasd-mode: t
  purpose-mode: t
  eyebrowse-mode: t
  global-anzu-mode: t
  anzu-mode: t
  editorconfig-mode: t
  counsel-mode: t
  ivy-mode: t
  clean-aindent-mode: t
  which-key-mode: t
  override-global-mode: t
  global-undo-tree-mode: t
  undo-tree-mode: t
  shell-dirtrack-mode: t
  evil-mode: t
  evil-local-mode: t
  spacemacs-leader-override-mode: t
  global-spacemacs-leader-override-mode: t
  global-hl-line-mode: t
  xterm-mouse-mode: t
  global-auto-revert-mode: t
  ido-vertical-mode: t
  global-page-break-lines-mode: t
  global-eldoc-mode: t
  electric-indent-mode: t
  mouse-wheel-mode: t
  file-name-shadow-mode: t
  global-font-lock-mode: t
  font-lock-mode: t
  auto-composition-mode: t
  auto-encryption-mode: t
  auto-compression-mode: t
  buffer-read-only: t
  column-number-mode: t
  line-number-mode: t
  transient-mark-mode: t

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/home/dalanicolai/.emacs.d/elpa/27.1/develop/org-plus-contrib-
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/home/dalanicolai/.emacs.d/elpa/27.1/develop/org-plus-contrib-
20200914/ob-emacs-lisp hides /usr/share/emacs/27.1/lisp/org/ob-emacs-
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/home/dalanicolai/.emacs.d/elpa/27.1/develop/org-plus-contrib-
20200914/ox-icalendar hides /usr/share/emacs/27.1/lisp/org/ox-icalendar
/home/dalanicolai/.emacs.d/elpa/27.1/develop/org-plus-contrib-
20200914/ol-info hides /usr/share/emacs/27.1/lisp/org/ol-info
/home/dalanicolai/.emacs.d/elpa/27.1/develop/org-plus-contrib-
20200914/org-id hides /usr/share/emacs/27.1/lisp/org/org-id
/home/dalanicolai/.emacs.d/elpa/27.1/develop/org-plus-contrib-
20200914/org-attach-git hides /usr/share/emacs/27.1/lisp/org/org-
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20200914/org-table hides /usr/share/emacs/27.1/lisp/org/org-table
/home/dalanicolai/.emacs.d/elpa/27.1/develop/org-plus-contrib-
20200914/org-attach hides /usr/share/emacs/27.1/lisp/org/org-attach
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20200914/ob-exp hides /usr/share/emacs/27.1/lisp/org/ob-exp
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20200914/org-macs hides /usr/share/emacs/27.1/lisp/org/org-macs
/home/dalanicolai/.emacs.d/elpa/27.1/develop/org-plus-contrib-
20200914/ob-java hides /usr/share/emacs/27.1/lisp/org/ob-java
/home/dalanicolai/.emacs.d/elpa/27.1/develop/org-plus-contrib-
20200914/ob-lilypond hides /usr/share/emacs/27.1/lisp/org/ob-lilypond
/home/dalanicolai/.emacs.d/elpa/27.1/develop/org-plus-contrib-
20200914/ol-gnus hides /usr/share/emacs/27.1/lisp/org/ol-gnus
/home/dalanicolai/.emacs.d/elpa/27.1/develop/org-plus-contrib-
20200914/ob-org hides /usr/share/emacs/27.1/lisp/org/ob-org
/home/dalanicolai/.emacs.d/elpa/27.1/develop/org-plus-contrib-
20200914/ob-C hides /usr/share/emacs/27.1/lisp/org/ob-C
/home/dalanicolai/.emacs.d/elpa/27.1/develop/org-plus-contrib-
20200914/ob-lua hides /usr/share/emacs/27.1/lisp/org/ob-lua
/home/dalanicolai/.emacs.d/elpa/27.1/develop/org-plus-contrib-
20200914/org-pcomplete hides /usr/share/emacs/27.1/lisp/org/org-
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/home/dalanicolai/.emacs.d/elpa/27.1/develop/org-plus-contrib-
20200914/org-version hides /usr/share/emacs/27.1/lisp/org/org-version
/home/dalanicolai/.emacs.d/elpa/27.1/develop/org-plus-contrib-
20200914/ox-ascii hides /usr/share/emacs/27.1/lisp/org/ox-ascii
/home/dalanicolai/.emacs.d/elpa/27.1/develop/org-plus-contrib-
20200914/ob-R hides /usr/share/emacs/27.1/lisp/org/ob-R
/home/dalanicolai/.emacs.d/elpa/27.1/develop/org-plus-contrib-
20200914/ob-groovy hides /usr/share/emacs/27.1/lisp/org/ob-groovy
/home/dalanicolai/.emacs.d/elpa/27.1/develop/org-plus-contrib-
20200914/org-src hides /usr/share/emacs/27.1/lisp/org/org-src
/home/dalanicolai/.emacs.d/elpa/27.1/develop/org-plus-contrib-
20200914/ob-perl hides /usr/share/emacs/27.1/lisp/org/ob-perl
/home/dalanicolai/.emacs.d/elpa/27.1/develop/org-plus-contrib-
20200914/ob-css hides /usr/share/emacs/27.1/lisp/org/ob-css
/home/dalanicolai/.emacs.d/elpa/27.1/develop/org-plus-contrib-
20200914/ox-beamer hides /usr/share/emacs/27.1/lisp/org/ox-beamer
/home/dalanicolai/.emacs.d/elpa/27.1/develop/org-plus-contrib-
20200914/ol-w3m hides /usr/share/emacs/27.1/lisp/org/ol-w3m
/home/dalanicolai/.emacs.d/elpa/27.1/develop/org-plus-contrib-
20200914/org-loaddefs hides /usr/share/emacs/27.1/lisp/org/org-loaddefs

Features:
(shadow mail-extr emacsbug debug backtrace company-shell
flycheck-bashate sh-script smie executable emoji-cheat-sheet-plus
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case-table epa-hook jka-cmpr-hook help simple abbrev obarray
cl-preloaded nadvice loaddefs button faces cus-face macroexp files
text-properties overlay sha1 md5 base64 format env code-pages mule
custom widget hashtable-print-readable backquote threads dbusbind
inotify dynamic-setting system-font-setting font-render-setting
xwidget-internal cairo move-toolbar gtk x-toolkit x multi-tty
make-network-process emacs)

Memory information:
((conses 16 1923967 1016685)
 (symbols 48 110348 1)
 (strings 32 507597 239565)
 (string-bytes 1 47373847)
 (vectors 16 142568)
 (vector-slots 8 2761719 1165654)
 (floats 8 20853 9124)
 (intervals 56 81785 17363)
 (buffers 1000 86))

bug#43463: 27.1; Elisp manual error, printed text in Interaction buffer

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: dalanicolai@gmail.com
> Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2020 06:19:59 +0200
> 
> In section 1.3.4 of the Elisp manual (version 27.1), it says that
> printed text from evaluated code in an Interactive buffer (e.g.
> *scratch*) is inserted into that buffer, but this is not true when I
> evaluate such code in a non-customized vanilla Emacs.

Could you please describe in more detail how you evaluate such code in
a way that produces results which contradict what the manual says?
Because I don't think I understand what you mean by that.

Thanks.

bug#43463: 27.1; Elisp manual error, printed text in Interaction buffer

[Eli Zaretskii]

[Please use Reply All to reply, so that the discussion gets recorded
by the bug tracker.]

> From: dalanicolai <dalanicolai@gmail.com>
> Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2020 15:59:03 +0200
> 
> I copy the example text into a *scratch* buffer, and evaluate it by placing the cursor behind the code and
> press C-x C-e, the text is then printed in the echo-area.
> However the following line from Section 1.3.4 suggests to me that it should get printed within the *scratch*
> buffer itself:
> 
> "If you execute example code in a Lisp Interaction buffer (such as the
> buffer ‘*scratch*’), the printed text is inserted into the buffer."

Would it be enough to say

  "If you execute ... by typing C-j after the closing parentheses, the
  printed text is inserted ..."

IOW, how to "execute the code in the buffer" was not explained, and we
need to explain it.  Right?

bug#43463: 27.1; Elisp manual error, printed text in Interaction buffer

[dalanicolai]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1697 bytes --]

Ah okay thanks, will use reply all then.
Yes indeed, I think adding only that would make it less confusing because
the word "execute" is somewhat ambiguous here. Then people get a hint and
can look it up (looking a bit more I think the C-j functionality is "not
really over-advertised"). Of course the part "execute example code" could
link to section 27.7 of the Elisp manual and/or in a "Lisp Interaction
buffer" could become a link to section 27.10. It might be a little
excessive, but the excessive documentation is one of the aspects that makes
Emacs my favorite editor. But otherwise just adding the few words would
make it much clearer for me already.
Thanks again for your great work!

On Sun, 20 Sep 2020 at 16:25, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> wrote:

> [Please use Reply All to reply, so that the discussion gets recorded
> by the bug tracker.]
>
> > From: dalanicolai <dalanicolai@gmail.com>
> > Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2020 15:59:03 +0200
> >
> > I copy the example text into a *scratch* buffer, and evaluate it by
> placing the cursor behind the code and
> > press C-x C-e, the text is then printed in the echo-area.
> > However the following line from Section 1.3.4 suggests to me that it
> should get printed within the *scratch*
> > buffer itself:
> >
> > "If you execute example code in a Lisp Interaction buffer (such as the
> > buffer ‘*scratch*’), the printed text is inserted into the buffer."
>
> Would it be enough to say
>
>   "If you execute ... by typing C-j after the closing parentheses, the
>   printed text is inserted ..."
>
> IOW, how to "execute the code in the buffer" was not explained, and we
> need to explain it.  Right?
>

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bug#43463: 27.1; Elisp manual error, printed text in Interaction buffer

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: dalanicolai <dalanicolai@gmail.com>
> Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2020 18:24:48 +0200
> Cc: 43463@debbugs.gnu.org
> 
> Yes indeed, I think adding only that would make it less confusing because the word "execute" is somewhat
> ambiguous here.

OK, I've done that, and I'm therefore closing this bug report.

Thanks for pointing out the unclear text.