[BUG] cant normally edit tables created with table-insert [9.5.2 (release_9.5.2-25-gaf6f12 @ c:/Program Files/Emacs/emacs-28.1/share/emacs/28.1/lisp/org/)]

[BUG] cant normally edit tables created with table-insert [9.5.2 (release_9.5.2-25-gaf6f12 @ c:/Program Files/Emacs/emacs-28.1/share/emacs/28.1/lisp/org/)]

[ELECTRUM BIKES]

Remember to cover the basics, that is, what you expected to happen and
what in fact did happen.  You don't know how to make a good report? See

      https://orgmode.org/manual/Feedback.html#Feedback

Your bug report will be posted to the Org mailing list.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi. Tables created in org-mode by inserting manually | works fine, but
if I use table-insert I can't manipulate table, I get "use C-c `"
notification in minibuffer when I click <tab> to move to next cell. If I
click C-c `, I get "not a table" response. In such tables I can only insert
text but not use shortcuts and they're generally broken. I tried it on
emacs -q and it looks it's not my configuration fault, same behavior.
Also, there seems to be problem with handling top and bottom borders, if 
I insert
(for example, 3 column table) +-+-+ at the top or bottom of a working table,
it breaks to exactly same state as command-inserted tables, so probably
top and bottom border handling breaks tables (command created tables
does have this borders).

Emacs  : GNU Emacs 28.1 (build 52, x86_64-w64-mingw32)
  of 2022-04-04
Package: Org mode version 9.5.2 (release_9.5.2-25-gaf6f12 @ c:/Program 
Files/Emacs/emacs-28.1/share/emacs/28.1/lisp/org/)

Re: [BUG] cant normally edit tables created with table-insert [9.5.2 (release_9.5.2-25-gaf6f12 @ c:/Program Files/Emacs/emacs-28.1/share/emacs/28.1/lisp/org/)]

[Ihor Radchenko]

ELECTRUM BIKES <mati@electrum-bikes.pl> writes:

> Hi. Tables created in org-mode by inserting manually | works fine, but
> if I use table-insert I can't manipulate table, I get "use C-c `"
> notification in minibuffer when I click <tab> to move to next cell.

"C-c '", not C-c `.

> If I click C-c `, I get "not a table" response. In such tables I can
> only insert text but not use shortcuts and they're generally broken. I
> tried it on emacs -q and it looks it's not my configuration fault,
> same behavior.

Please provide more details on what you have tried.

I tried


    +--------------+------+--------------------------------+
    |              |      |                                |
    |              |      |                                |
    +--------------+------+--------------------------------+
    |              |      |Text editing inside the table   |
    |              |      |cell produces reasonably        |
    |              |      |expected results.-!-            |
    +--------------+------+--------------------------------+
    |              |      |                                |
    |              |      |                                |
    +--------------+------+--------------------------------+

with point at the top left cell, after C-c ', I can <TAB> across cells
in the edit buffer.

> Also, there seems to be problem with handling top and bottom borders,
> if I insert
> (for example, 3 column table) +-+-+ at the top or bottom of a working table,
> it breaks to exactly same state as command-inserted tables, so probably
> top and bottom border handling breaks tables (command created tables
> does have this borders).

Sorry, I do not understand what you are referring two. Detailed steps
explaining what text you inserted and what key bindings you pressed
would help a lot.

-- 
Ihor Radchenko // yantar92,
Org mode contributor,
Learn more about Org mode at <https://orgmode.org/>.
Support Org development at <https://liberapay.com/org-mode>,
or support my work at <https://liberapay.com/yantar92>

Re: [BUG] cant normally edit tables created with table-insert [9.5.2 (release_9.5.2-25-gaf6f12 @ c:/Program Files/Emacs/emacs-28.1/share/emacs/28.1/lisp/org/)]

[Mati]

> Please provide more details on what you have tried.
M-x table-insert 5 columns 5 rows 15 cell width 1 height

Then enter something in first cell. press tab to go to next cell, but 
then message appears with C-c ’ (copy-pasted it from messages buffer) 
shortcut. I can edit table after pressing C-c ', in orgsrc mode, with 
very limited functionality and it just doesn't work well, table doesn't 
shrink after deleting text etc.

Also, I noticed that horizontal table lines (|-----+-----|) are not 
properly recognized too and instead of inserting new cells below line, 
they are inserted above when moving by <tab>. The funny part is that 
this works in emacs with my configuration loaded (valign-mode and 
variable pitch font might matter) so it works well when it could be 
expected to break, and is broken in pure emacs (but only horizontal 
lines, top and bottom border still breaks table even with valign). Of 
course with emacs -q I test on monospace font.

> with point at the top left cell, after C-c ', I can <TAB> across cells
> in the edit buffer.
Yes, in orgsrc mode (after clicking this shortcut, C-c ') it's possible, 
but it should work in org, also as I previously mentioned, orgsrc table 
editing is limited and doesn't work properly.

On 27.10.2022 05:36, Ihor Radchenko wrote:
> ELECTRUM BIKES <mati@electrum-bikes.pl> writes:
>
>> Hi. Tables created in org-mode by inserting manually | works fine, but
>> if I use table-insert I can't manipulate table, I get "use C-c `"
>> notification in minibuffer when I click <tab> to move to next cell.
> "C-c '", not C-c `.
>
>> If I click C-c `, I get "not a table" response. In such tables I can
>> only insert text but not use shortcuts and they're generally broken. I
>> tried it on emacs -q and it looks it's not my configuration fault,
>> same behavior.
> Please provide more details on what you have tried.
>
> I tried
>
>
>      +--------------+------+--------------------------------+
>      |              |      |                                |
>      |              |      |                                |
>      +--------------+------+--------------------------------+
>      |              |      |Text editing inside the table   |
>      |              |      |cell produces reasonably        |
>      |              |      |expected results.-!-            |
>      +--------------+------+--------------------------------+
>      |              |      |                                |
>      |              |      |                                |
>      +--------------+------+--------------------------------+
>
> with point at the top left cell, after C-c ', I can <TAB> across cells
> in the edit buffer.
>
>> Also, there seems to be problem with handling top and bottom borders,
>> if I insert
>> (for example, 3 column table) +-+-+ at the top or bottom of a working table,
>> it breaks to exactly same state as command-inserted tables, so probably
>> top and bottom border handling breaks tables (command created tables
>> does have this borders).
> Sorry, I do not understand what you are referring two. Detailed steps
> explaining what text you inserted and what key bindings you pressed
> would help a lot.
>

Re: [BUG] cant normally edit tables created with table-insert [9.5.2 (release_9.5.2-25-gaf6f12 @ c:/Program Files/Emacs/emacs-28.1/share/emacs/28.1/lisp/org/)]

[Ihor Radchenko]

Mati <mati@electrum-bikes.pl> writes:

>> with point at the top left cell, after C-c ', I can <TAB> across cells
>> in the edit buffer.
> Yes, in orgsrc mode (after clicking this shortcut, C-c ') it's possible, 
> but it should work in org, also as I previously mentioned, orgsrc table 
> editing is limited and doesn't work properly.

Note the table-insert is not an Org command. It inserts table.el-style
tables. Their support in Org is limited. They are _not_ native Org
tables. See https://orgmode.org/manual/Cooperation.html
That's why you need to use C-c ' and then work as you would via table.el
commands.

The proper Org tables can be created using M-x org-table-create. See
https://orgmode.org/manual/Tables.html.

-- 
Ihor Radchenko // yantar92,
Org mode contributor,
Learn more about Org mode at <https://orgmode.org/>.
Support Org development at <https://liberapay.com/org-mode>,
or support my work at <https://liberapay.com/yantar92>

Re: [BUG] cant normally edit tables created with table-insert [9.5.2 (release_9.5.2-25-gaf6f12 @ c:/Program Files/Emacs/emacs-28.1/share/emacs/28.1/lisp/org/)]

[Mati]

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I saw a similar topic created about hlines. So, it would be rather a 
feature request to add hlines rather than bug. Here is fragment of 
conversation I am talking about for reference:

>> /I start with /
>>
>>
>>
>> /| Example | Text | Dates | other |/
>> /|---------+---------+--------------+---------|/
>> /| this | comment | <2022-01-28 vie> | nothing |/
>>
>>
>> /That is converted to /
>>
>>
>>
>> /+---------+---------+--------------+---------+/
>> /| Example | Text | Dates | other |/
>> /+---------+---------+--------------+---------+/
>> /| this | comment | <2022-01-28 vie> | nothing |/
>> /+---------+---------+--------------+---------+/
>>
>>
>> /And is converted back to /
>>
>>
>> /| Example | Text | Dates | other |/
>> /| this | comment | <2022-01-28 vie> | nothing |/
>>
>>
>> /Couldn't in the last step the hlines be respected?/
> That would not make sense.
> AFAIK, table.el has no notion of hlines. The +---+ separators in
> table.el tables mark cell boundaries, not hlines.

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Re: [BUG] cant normally edit tables created with table-insert [9.5.2 (release_9.5.2-25-gaf6f12 @ c:/Program Files/Emacs/emacs-28.1/share/emacs/28.1/lisp/org/)]

[Ihor Radchenko]

Mati <mati@electrum-bikes.pl> writes:

> I saw a similar topic created about hlines. So, it would be rather a 
> feature request to add hlines rather than bug. Here is fragment of 
> conversation I am talking about for reference:

I am sorry, but I don't understand.
In the reply to the linked conversation I explained that table.el tables
do not have any notion of hlines.

-- 
Ihor Radchenko // yantar92,
Org mode contributor,
Learn more about Org mode at <https://orgmode.org/>.
Support Org development at <https://liberapay.com/org-mode>,
or support my work at <https://liberapay.com/yantar92>

Re: [BUG] cant normally edit tables created with table-insert [9.5.2 (release_9.5.2-25-gaf6f12 @ c:/Program Files/Emacs/emacs-28.1/share/emacs/28.1/lisp/org/)]

[Mati]

So, you mean that those aren't hlines but cell boundaries? Simplifying, 
I think the problem is lack of table top and bottom border support, no 
matter how it will be created.

On 30.10.2022 08:47, Ihor Radchenko wrote:
> I am sorry, but I don't understand.
> In the reply to the linked conversation I explained that table.el tables
> do not have any notion of hlines.

Re: [BUG] cant normally edit tables created with table-insert [9.5.2 (release_9.5.2-25-gaf6f12 @ c:/Program Files/Emacs/emacs-28.1/share/emacs/28.1/lisp/org/)]

[Ihor Radchenko]

Mati <mati@electrum-bikes.pl> writes:

> So, you mean that those aren't hlines but cell boundaries?

Yes.

> Simplifying, 
> I think the problem is lack of table top and bottom border support, no 
> matter how it will be created.

Could you please provide a concrete example on what you want to achieve?

-- 
Ihor Radchenko // yantar92,
Org mode contributor,
Learn more about Org mode at <https://orgmode.org/>.
Support Org development at <https://liberapay.com/org-mode>,
or support my work at <https://liberapay.com/yantar92>

Re: [BUG] cant normally edit tables created with table-insert [9.5.2 (release_9.5.2-25-gaf6f12 @ c:/Program Files/Emacs/emacs-28.1/share/emacs/28.1/lisp/org/)]

[Mati]

> Could you please provide a concrete example on what you want to achieve?

+-----+-----+ at top and bottom of table creates top and bottom border 
and doesn't break table.

Re: [BUG] cant normally edit tables created with table-insert [9.5.2 (release_9.5.2-25-gaf6f12 @ c:/Program Files/Emacs/emacs-28.1/share/emacs/28.1/lisp/org/)]

[Ihor Radchenko]

Mati <mati@electrum-bikes.pl> writes:

>> Could you please provide a concrete example on what you want to achieve?
>
> +-----+-----+ at top and bottom of table creates top and bottom border 
> and doesn't break table.

Org export for table.el tables relies on export capabilities of
table.el. We may hack into the export to add border (say, according to
#+ATTR_HTML attribute), but it will be fragile wrt changes in table.el
export.

So, I do not think that it is a good idea to add such kind of feature to
Org. table.el support is limited as long is it is not a part of actual
Org syntax and not supported fully in org-table.el.

In terms of Org development, we should probably focus more on improving
built-in tables, as discussed in
https://orgmode.org/list/878rkyarvm.fsf@localhost

On personal level, you may use org-export-filter-table-functions to add
the borders as needed.

-- 
Ihor Radchenko // yantar92,
Org mode contributor,
Learn more about Org mode at <https://orgmode.org/>.
Support Org development at <https://liberapay.com/org-mode>,
or support my work at <https://liberapay.com/yantar92>

Re: [BUG] cant normally edit tables created with table-insert [9.5.2 (release_9.5.2-25-gaf6f12 @ c:/Program Files/Emacs/emacs-28.1/share/emacs/28.1/lisp/org/)]

[Mati]

> Try
>
> |------+----+------|
> | this | is | test |
> |    1 |  2 |    3 |
> |------+----+------|
Works, but I must somehow hack it to look normally with valign then. Thanks.