structure editing in brainstorming mode

structure editing in brainstorming mode

[Rustom Mody]

There are certain use-cases that come up -- typically when using
org-mode in 'brainstorming mode'.
I am sure they are so basic that there must be ways of doing it that I
dont know of...

1. Multiple heading demotion

Lets say I start writing down some points maybe with/without some
additional text
* Cat
* Dog

And now I decide to put all these into a superheading 'My Pets'
The only way I know is to enter
* My Pets
before Cat and then demote each subtree -- if there were not two but
ten I'd have to do that 10 times
I tried selecting the whole set that I want to demote and doing M-S-right
but I get the message

This command is active in special contexts like tables headlines or timestamps

2. Converting heading type

Sometimes one assumes that the points are 'small' and so are entered
as + points. Thus
* Pets
  + Cat
  + Dog

and then at some point it emerges that the +es had better be changed
to headings that is (the requisite number of) *s.  Any easy way of
doing that?

Thanks

Rustom

Re: structure editing in brainstorming mode

[Matthew Lundin]

Hi Rustom,

"Rustom Mody" <rustompmody@gmail.com> writes:

> 1. Multiple heading demotion
>
> Lets say I start writing down some points maybe with/without some
> additional text
> * Cat
> * Dog
>
> And now I decide to put all these into a superheading 'My Pets'
> The only way I know is to enter
> * My Pets
> before Cat and then demote each subtree -- if there were not two but
> ten I'd have to do that 10 times
> I tried selecting the whole set that I want to demote and doing M-S-right
> but I get the message
>
> This command is active in special contexts like tables headlines or timestamps

For this, you can use M-<right> and M-<left>, which promote and demote
headlines. (M-S-<right> demotes the entire subtree.)

See this section of the manual a list of commands:
http://orgmode.org/manual/Structure-editing.html#Structure-editing

> 2. Converting heading type
>
> Sometimes one assumes that the points are 'small' and so are entered
> as + points. Thus
> * Pets
>   + Cat
>   + Dog
>
> and then at some point it emerges that the +es had better be changed
> to headings that is (the requisite number of) *s.  Any easy way of
> doing that?
>

C-c - or S-<left>/<right> should do the trick.

For more information, see this section of the manual:
http://orgmode.org/manual/Plain-lists.html#Plain-lists

Best,

Matt

Re: structure editing in brainstorming mode

[Carsten Dominik]

On Dec 29, 2008, at 1:51 PM, Matthew Lundin wrote:

>
> Hi Rustom,
>
> "Rustom Mody" <rustompmody@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> 1. Multiple heading demotion
>>
>> Lets say I start writing down some points maybe with/without some
>> additional text
>> * Cat
>> * Dog
>>
>> And now I decide to put all these into a superheading 'My Pets'
>> The only way I know is to enter
>> * My Pets
>> before Cat and then demote each subtree -- if there were not two but
>> ten I'd have to do that 10 times
>> I tried selecting the whole set that I want to demote and doing M-S- 
>> right
>> but I get the message
>>
>> This command is active in special contexts like tables headlines or  
>> timestamps
>
> For this, you can use M-<right> and M-<left>, which promote and demote
> headlines. (M-S-<right> demotes the entire subtree.)

Hi Rustom,

have you seen this part of the reply?  Matt is correct that what you  
are trying (demoting a region of headlines) works with M-right, but  
not with M-S-right.  The reason for this is that a region might  
contain incomplete trees, which would led to a contradiction in which  
headlines should be changed.

- Carsten


>
>
> See this section of the manual a list of commands:
> http://orgmode.org/manual/Structure-editing.html#Structure-editing
>
>> 2. Converting heading type
>>
>> Sometimes one assumes that the points are 'small' and so are entered
>> as + points. Thus
>> * Pets
>>  + Cat
>>  + Dog
>>
>> and then at some point it emerges that the +es had better be changed
>> to headings that is (the requisite number of) *s.  Any easy way of
>> doing that?
>>
>
> C-c - or S-<left>/<right> should do the trick.
>
> For more information, see this section of the manual:
> http://orgmode.org/manual/Plain-lists.html#Plain-lists
>
> Best,
>
> Matt
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
> Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode

Re: structure editing in brainstorming mode

[Rustom Mody]

On Wed, Dec 31, 2008 at 5:25 AM, Carsten Dominik <dominik@science.uva.nl> wrote:
>
> On Dec 29, 2008, at 1:51 PM, Matthew Lundin wrote:
<snipped>
>> For this, you can use M-<right> and M-<left>, which promote and demote
>> headlines. (M-S-<right> demotes the entire subtree.)
>
> Hi Rustom,
>
> have you seen this part of the reply?  Matt is correct that what you are
> trying (demoting a region of headlines) works with M-right, but not with
> M-S-right.

Thanks.  But I had to turn on transient mark mode for it to work.
Intended behavior I guess?

Re: structure editing in brainstorming mode

[Carsten Dominik]

On Dec 31, 2008, at 7:04 AM, Rustom Mody wrote:

> On Wed, Dec 31, 2008 at 5:25 AM, Carsten Dominik <dominik@science.uva.nl 
> > wrote:
>>
>> On Dec 29, 2008, at 1:51 PM, Matthew Lundin wrote:
> <snipped>
>>> For this, you can use M-<right> and M-<left>, which promote and  
>>> demote
>>> headlines. (M-S-<right> demotes the entire subtree.)
>>
>> Hi Rustom,
>>
>> have you seen this part of the reply?  Matt is correct that what  
>> you are
>> trying (demoting a region of headlines) works with M-right, but not  
>> with
>> M-S-right.
>
> Thanks.  But I had to turn on transient mark mode for it to work.
> Intended behavior I guess?

Yes.  Everybody should turn it on.  Why would you not?

Anyway, it Emacs 23, it will be the default.

Matt, we clearly need a FAQ entry about transient-mark-mode :-)

- Carsten

Re: structure editing in brainstorming mode

[Daniel Clemente]

>> Thanks.  But I had to turn on transient mark mode for it to work.
>> Intended behavior I guess?
>
> Yes.  Everybody should turn it on.  Why would you not?
>

  Why „should“ everyone use transient mark mode? Not everyone has to like that setting, and some may prefer to work without it.

  I myself find it confusing because when I set the mark, I want just to mark that point for later use (to jump quickly there, for instance). transient-mark-mode assumes that I always want to *start a region*, which is not true.

  I also like to select text without highlighting; it is less distracting and more readable.


  I wish you a (transient-mark-mode -1) and a happy new year :-)
Daniel

Re: structure editing in brainstorming mode

[Carsten Dominik]

On Dec 31, 2008, at 12:36 PM, Daniel Clemente wrote:

>
>>> Thanks.  But I had to turn on transient mark mode for it to work.
>>> Intended behavior I guess?
>>
>> Yes.  Everybody should turn it on.  Why would you not?
>>
>
>  Why „should“ everyone use transient mark mode? Not everyone has to  
> like that setting, and some may prefer to work without it.
>
>  I myself find it confusing because when I set the mark, I want just  
> to mark that point for later use (to jump quickly there, for  
> instance). transient-mark-mode assumes that I always want to *start  
> a region*, which is not true.
>
>  I also like to select text without highlighting; it is less  
> distracting and more readable.
>
>
>  I wish you a (transient-mark-mode -1) and a happy new year :-)


OK, point taken.  I hardly ever use the mark as a jumping point.

When I need to remember a position, most of the time I split the
window, go to where I want momentarily in the new window, and
then close that window again.

I thought that transient-mark-mode was the only way to make use
of commands that automatically use the region if one is active.
But because of your mail, I went back to the Emacs manual and
learned about the Momentary Mark, which is
transient-transient-mark-mode, sort of.  Pretty nice, this is
a viable alternative to turning on transient-mark-mode, so viable
that I am now considering turning off transient-mark-mode :-)

OK, rephrase:

   To use region-sensitive commands, everybody should either
   turn on transient-mark-mode, or learn about the momentary mark.


May your transition into the next year be highlighted.

- Carsten



>
> Daniel

Re: structure editing in brainstorming mode

[Daniel Martins]

[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2245 bytes --]

 I wish you a (transient-mark-mode -1) and a happy new year :-)  ???

May your transition into the next year be highlighted ???

(comment-add 0)
(setq happy-new-year t)

Daniel


2008/12/31 Carsten Dominik <dominik@science.uva.nl>

>
> On Dec 31, 2008, at 12:36 PM, Daniel Clemente wrote:
>
>
>>  Thanks.  But I had to turn on transient mark mode for it to work.
>>>> Intended behavior I guess?
>>>>
>>>
>>> Yes.  Everybody should turn it on.  Why would you not?
>>>
>>>
>>  Why „should" everyone use transient mark mode? Not everyone has to like
>> that setting, and some may prefer to work without it.
>>
>>  I myself find it confusing because when I set the mark, I want just to
>> mark that point for later use (to jump quickly there, for instance).
>> transient-mark-mode assumes that I always want to *start a region*, which is
>> not true.
>>
>>  I also like to select text without highlighting; it is less distracting
>> and more readable.
>>
>>
>>  I wish you a (transient-mark-mode -1) and a happy new year :-)
>>
>
>
> OK, point taken.  I hardly ever use the mark as a jumping point.
>
> When I need to remember a position, most of the time I split the
> window, go to where I want momentarily in the new window, and
> then close that window again.
>
> I thought that transient-mark-mode was the only way to make use
> of commands that automatically use the region if one is active.
> But because of your mail, I went back to the Emacs manual and
> learned about the Momentary Mark, which is
> transient-transient-mark-mode, sort of.  Pretty nice, this is
> a viable alternative to turning on transient-mark-mode, so viable
> that I am now considering turning off transient-mark-mode :-)
>
> OK, rephrase:
>
>  To use region-sensitive commands, everybody should either
>  turn on transient-mark-mode, or learn about the momentary mark.
>
>
> May your transition into the next year be highlighted.
>
> - Carsten
>
>
>
>
>
>> Daniel
>>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
> Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
>

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Re: structure editing in brainstorming mode

[Rustom Mody]

On Wed, Dec 31, 2008 at 6:58 PM, Carsten Dominik <dominik@science.uva.nl> wrote:
> I thought that transient-mark-mode was the only way to make use
> of commands that automatically use the region if one is active.
> But because of your mail, I went back to the Emacs manual and
> learned about the Momentary Mark, which is
> transient-transient-mark-mode, sort of.  Pretty nice, this is
> a viable alternative to turning on transient-mark-mode, so viable
> that I am now considering turning off transient-mark-mode :-)

Hey Neat! Thanks for that new year gift Carsten.

And a happy new year to all!

Re: structure editing in brainstorming mode

[Carsten Dominik]

On Jan 1, 2009, at 7:42 AM, Rustom Mody wrote:

> On Wed, Dec 31, 2008 at 6:58 PM, Carsten Dominik <dominik@science.uva.nl 
> > wrote:
>> I thought that transient-mark-mode was the only way to make use
>> of commands that automatically use the region if one is active.
>> But because of your mail, I went back to the Emacs manual and
>> learned about the Momentary Mark, which is
>> transient-transient-mark-mode, sort of.  Pretty nice, this is
>> a viable alternative to turning on transient-mark-mode, so viable
>> that I am now considering turning off transient-mark-mode :-)
>
> Hey Neat! Thanks for that new year gift Carsten.

:-)

I think this should all already work, just leave transient-mark-mode
off, and then use `C-SPC C-SPC' instead of only a single `C-SPC' to
start a region.

- Carsten

Re: structure editing in brainstorming mode

[Matthew Lundin]

Hi everyone,

Carsten Dominik <dominik@science.uva.nl> writes:

>
> Matt, we clearly need a FAQ entry about transient-mark-mode :-)
>
> - Carsten

I've put up a new FAQ on transient mark mode and Momentary Mark: 

http://orgmode.org/worg/org-faq.php#transient-mark-mode

Feel free to suggest any corrections.

Best, 
Matt

Re: structure editing in brainstorming mode

[Bernt Hansen]

"Rustom Mody" <rustompmody@gmail.com> writes:

> 1. Multiple heading demotion
>
> Lets say I start writing down some points maybe with/without some
> additional text
> * Cat
> * Dog
>
> And now I decide to put all these into a superheading 'My Pets'
> The only way I know is to enter
> * My Pets
> before Cat and then demote each subtree -- if there were not two but
> ten I'd have to do that 10 times

This sounds like a great use for a keyboard macro

Hit S-Tab until you get Contents view which shows headlines only (the
rest of the content is folded) and position the cursor on the first
headline to be demoted

C-x (
M-S-right
M-x org-forward-same-level
C-x )

Then just C-x e to repeat the macro and demote the current headline and
move forward to the next one.  If you're demoting consecutive entries
then you can do C-x e for the first and just 'e' for each successive one
to repeat the macro. (eg. C-x e e e e demotes this headline and the 3
following it)

>
> 2. Converting heading type
>
> Sometimes one assumes that the points are 'small' and so are entered
> as + points. Thus
> * Pets
>   + Cat
>   + Dog
> and then at some point it emerges that the +es had better be changed
> to headings that is (the requisite number of) *s.  Any easy way of
> doing that?

You can just use query replace for this

Highlight the entries to convert and then

C-M-%

and change 
'^  \+'
to
'**'  (or '***' if you are using odd levels only)

HTH,
-Bernt

Re: Re: structure editing in brainstorming mode

[Nick Dokos]

Bernt Hansen <bernt@norang.ca> wrote:

> "Rustom Mody" <rustompmody@gmail.com> writes:
> 
> > 1. Multiple heading demotion
> >
> > Lets say I start writing down some points maybe with/without some
> > additional text
> > * Cat
> > * Dog
> >
> > And now I decide to put all these into a superheading 'My Pets'
> > The only way I know is to enter
> > * My Pets
> > before Cat and then demote each subtree -- if there were not two but
> > ten I'd have to do that 10 times
> 
> This sounds like a great use for a keyboard macro
> 
> Hit S-Tab until you get Contents view which shows headlines only (the
> rest of the content is folded) and position the cursor on the first
> headline to be demoted
> 
> C-x (
> M-S-right
> M-x org-forward-same-level
> C-x )
> 
> Then just C-x e to repeat the macro and demote the current headline and
> move forward to the next one.  If you're demoting consecutive entries
> then you can do C-x e for the first and just 'e' for each successive one
> to repeat the macro. (eg. C-x e e e e demotes this headline and the 
> following it)
> 

... or use a numeric prefix.

Alternatively, I think you can do this with the kill/copy/yank commands
(although I had to specify a numeric prefix for the yank level: when I yanked
without it, it didn't "fit in nicely at the yank position." But I may be
misunderstanding the way it's supposed to work):

`C-c C-x C-w'
     Kill subtree, i.e. remove it from buffer but save in kill ring.
     With a numeric prefix argument N, kill N sequential subtrees.  

`C-c C-x M-w'
     Copy subtree to kill ring.  With a numeric prefix argument N, copy
     the N sequential subtrees.  

`C-c C-x C-y'
     Yank subtree from kill ring.  This does modify the level of the
     subtree to make sure the tree fits in nicely at the yank position.
     The yank level can also be specified with a numeric prefix
     argument, or by yanking after a headline marker like `****'.  

`C-y'
     Depending on the variables `org-yank-adjusted-subtrees' and
     `org-yank-folded-subtrees', Org's internal `yank' command will
     paste subtrees folded and in a clever way, using the same command
     as `C-c C-x C-y'.  With the default settings, level adjustment
     will take place and yanked trees will be folded unless doing so
     would swallow text previously visible.  Any prefix argument to
     this command will force a normal `yank' to be executed, with the
     prefix passed along.  A good way to force a normal yank is `C-u
     C-y'.  If you use `yank-pop' after a yank, it will yank previous
     kill items plainly, without adjustment and folding.  


> >
> > 2. Converting heading type
> >
> > Sometimes one assumes that the points are 'small' and so are entered
> > as + points. Thus
> > * Pets
> >   + Cat
> >   + Dog
> > and then at some point it emerges that the +es had better be changed
> > to headings that is (the requisite number of) *s.  Any easy way of
> > doing that?
> 
> You can just use query replace for this
> 
> Highlight the entries to convert and then
> 
> C-M-%
> 
> and change 
> '^  \+'
> to
> '**'  (or '***' if you are using odd levels only)
> 

I tend to forget occasionally that org-mode is *just text*: none of the
binary/proprietary/hidden/convoluted/confused/confusing/obfuscated crap
that most other programs force you into.  Thanks for the reminder,
Bernt!

Regards,
Nick

Re: structure editing in brainstorming mode

[Olaf Dietsche]

"Rustom Mody" <rustompmody@gmail.com> writes:

> There are certain use-cases that come up -- typically when using
> org-mode in 'brainstorming mode'.
> I am sure they are so basic that there must be ways of doing it that I
> dont know of...
[...]
> 2. Converting heading type
>
> Sometimes one assumes that the points are 'small' and so are entered
> as + points. Thus
> * Pets
>   + Cat
>   + Dog
>
> and then at some point it emerges that the +es had better be changed
> to headings that is (the requisite number of) *s.  Any easy way of
> doing that?

if there's no intervening text, select the rectangle (blanks and
pluses) and then do a string-rectangle: C-x r t ** RET

Regards, Olaf

Re: structure editing in brainstorming mode

[Rustom Mody]

Thanks Matthew for the C-c - tip -- I tried it and find that if I have

* Heading1
*** Subhead

and I do C-c - on Subhead I get
   - Subhead
(ie 3 leading spaces)

If the original was
** Subhead
I get 2 spaces

This seems to be the case that having odd-levels and hide stars is not
as convenient as not having it.

Re: Re: structure editing in brainstorming mode

[Carsten Dominik]

Fixed, thanks.

- Carsten

On Dec 30, 2008, at 3:11 PM, Rustom Mody wrote:

> Thanks Matthew for the C-c - tip -- I tried it and find that if I have
>
> * Heading1
> *** Subhead
>
> and I do C-c - on Subhead I get
>   - Subhead
> (ie 3 leading spaces)
>
> If the original was
> ** Subhead
> I get 2 spaces
>
> This seems to be the case that having odd-levels and hide stars is not
> as convenient as not having it.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
> Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode