From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: chad Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: What would an "An Official" GNU Emacs Book look like? Date: Thu, 28 May 2015 10:47:53 -0700 Message-ID: <8D124BB1-52ED-4521-9155-5B0C12FBFA75@gmail.com> References: <554CED70.1080705@gmail.com> <87siauzjiz.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <555955B1.5040905@gmail.com> <87oalizg8r.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87twv9sno8.fsf@mbork.pl> <87r3qdd4ms.fsf@debian.uxu> <874mn89n6m.fsf@debian.uxu> <877fs2zkdg.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <2125C8DF-D445-421F-8687-A187D56CC695@gmail.com> <5455BD20-A26D-4070-BC14-C092F846AE9E@gmail.com> <30AC4EAA-FFD2-4417-8CE1-3E243E152B04@gmail.com> <3E153D6B-2E99-4EB3-8F15-4706E6421054@gmail.com> <73A50486-F72D-47AF-99A0-623BE3CAF08B@gmail.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.2 \(2098\)) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1432835301 10159 80.91.229.3 (28 May 2015 17:48:21 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 28 May 2015 17:48:21 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: rms@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu May 28 19:48:11 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Yy1ud-0008IY-7t for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 28 May 2015 19:48:11 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:60169 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Yy1uc-0007Hv-CB for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 28 May 2015 13:48:10 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:55084) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Yy1uY-0007FK-52 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 28 May 2015 13:48:07 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Yy1uU-0006kt-9K for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 28 May 2015 13:48:06 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-pd0-x232.google.com ([2607:f8b0:400e:c02::232]:36297) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Yy1uO-0006if-RS; Thu, 28 May 2015 13:47:57 -0400 Original-Received: by pdfh10 with SMTP id h10so46678127pdf.3; Thu, 28 May 2015 10:47:55 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=content-type:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=xsASq+wJbXMNMxZPZuPLSbgIKGLCT6ZK7lW2rcyaBas=; b=DrUQoJcFJ0f7rKl8/7EP4RoJxYZapCpdqlAQtTEXdkF3/gKZlQwU9DHcuqRr6O7USq aX1eMd9snWUi69yaHQCSYkxCW9Obg9hsZo0OXU+FtffLMXduF+frI+gr/9FCKWs475Sj UZOaGF52eN3Kkdac42s1Tr8osoZEmlIGIb9o1wALeLaM7pTVyffJh3zguhb/I23RjnNN AZFA6caSwn78H4E3hE/5vSgLasIB7PyhmEpDkHY+ObLA9rp0b17En3AK8SM3KqjLYGNs NmEb0fxQIBduy8CQ4uSfMhvnRlG5SEVw4b63KEhmFyt8K7WHOJyrEicw6izHq7jhwh93 qFQg== X-Received: by 10.70.41.33 with SMTP id c1mr7717960pdl.114.1432835275693; Thu, 28 May 2015 10:47:55 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from [10.0.1.31] (97-113-55-215.tukw.qwest.net. [97.113.55.215]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id m2sm3045811pdp.4.2015.05.28.10.47.54 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Thu, 28 May 2015 10:47:54 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.2098) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:400e:c02::232 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:186929 Archived-At: > On 28 May 2015, at 05:31, Richard Stallman wrote: > >> We really, really arent. The link I sent you describes how to >> install software that you write on a non-jailbroken, non-rooted, >> fresh-from-the-store iOS device without having ever purchased an >> enrollment in the iOS Developer Program. > > I still don't understand the distinctions you are making, but I get > the impression this is an exploit, not a designed feature. Could you > tell me, straight out, whether that is so? The software allows it. The UI does not enable it. Apple arguably doesnt want people to do it, but does not make the software prevent it (except temporarily, as a side effect of changing the implementation details under their abstraction level). I dont know how to tell whether or not you think that should not count in some way or other. As I said from the beginning: It is absolutely possible, and has been for a while, but the practical hurdles are real, and theyre significant enough to persuade most people to just join the developer program (which comes with over tradeoffs, of course). Effectively, it works by signing the software yourself, and adding yourself as a source that can sign software to the device. This technique is common in modern internet infrastructure, where it is often confusing and a frequent source of questions for new sysadmins, but de rigeur for experienced ops. If what you want to know is Does Apple *support* this operation?, the answer is pretty clearly no, but they dont support installing Debian on macbooks, either. If what you want to know is Does *Apple* consider this to be an exploit?, as far as I know, youd have to ask them. ~Chad