From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Reitter Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: describe-bindings: ^L, bad order, naming Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 20:29:35 +0000 Message-ID: <89DEE8B2-EA6A-4347-A9AB-D1B99C58E725@gmail.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2) Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1300952603==" X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1131656321 28247 80.91.229.2 (10 Nov 2005 20:58:41 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 20:58:41 +0000 (UTC) Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Nov 10 21:58:39 2005 Return-path: Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by ciao.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EaJSx-00013y-11 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 10 Nov 2005 21:56:15 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EaJSw-0002s8-5y for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 10 Nov 2005 15:56:14 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1EaJSE-0002hS-En for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 10 Nov 2005 15:55:30 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1EaJSC-0002gT-BO for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 10 Nov 2005 15:55:29 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EaJSC-0002gO-7Y for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 10 Nov 2005 15:55:28 -0500 Original-Received: from [66.249.82.197] (helo=xproxy.gmail.com) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1EaJSC-0006ux-E3 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 10 Nov 2005 15:55:28 -0500 Original-Received: by xproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id h26so745551wxd for ; Thu, 10 Nov 2005 12:55:27 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:mime-version:to:message-id:content-type:from:subject:date:x-mailer; b=lumvRkH6uj5/PDI6+4F2kvx9ztgJJzu1NrPwQ7Y4OJM3+grTYVsBCoqTnqssotdd7wYcM9AvchyjzvErdvWTXDdXVZUu9Ei5EqwykB/WiM2SU930+qWEMGmXZXxCwLzlalkcpJfS2rwYGkX7y1aXwJ54qUHmVQndTSfrSmmq0NM= Original-Received: by 10.65.155.17 with SMTP id h17mr1421627qbo; Thu, 10 Nov 2005 12:29:37 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: from ?129.215.174.81? ( [129.215.174.81]) by mx.gmail.com with ESMTP id q15sm639974qbq.2005.11.10.12.29.36; Thu, 10 Nov 2005 12:29:37 -0800 (PST) Original-To: Emacs-Devel ' X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:45698 Archived-At: --===============1300952603== Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=sha1; boundary=Apple-Mail-17-876036934; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature" --Apple-Mail-17-876036934 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed describe-bindings separates the different groups with ^L even though the text that is output is intended to be human-readable. Isn't there a nicer way the groups can be separated? I also get a long list with latin key characters that are bound to encoded-kbd-self-insert-ccl. That's rather annoying. If this needs to be listed (why?), it should come at the end. As a novice user when trying out the describe-bindings function, I would see that there is a lot of uninteresting technical stuff at the beginning, so I would get rid of the window and try something else (like annoying people with questions in news groups...). And that happens with a function that is of great use, especially to new Emacs users. Couldn't there be a list of all groups in the beginning, with links going to the bindings belonging to the group? Or ideally, a list of all groups with a widget on each group that expands the group to show the full list of bindings? Lastly, I was wondering if one could use a better name for the menu item. "List Key Bindings" is of course perfectly correct from an Emacs terminology point of view. But as a new user, I would be looking for something like "Keyboard Functions" or "Keyboard Shortcuts" or so, not for "Bindings". The Help menu is really important and useful to newbies. It would be very helpful if one could make it easier to understand. --Apple-Mail-17-876036934 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name=smime.p7s Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=smime.p7s MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIIGOzCCAvQw ggJdoAMCAQICAw3xWjANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQQFADBiMQswCQYDVQQGEwJaQTElMCMGA1UEChMcVGhh d3RlIENvbnN1bHRpbmcgKFB0eSkgTHRkLjEsMCoGA1UEAxMjVGhhd3RlIFBlcnNvbmFsIEZyZWVt YWlsIElzc3VpbmcgQ0EwHhcNMDUwMjAxMjM0NTA0WhcNMDYwMjAxMjM0NTA0WjBiMRAwDgYDVQQE EwdSZWl0dGVyMQ4wDAYDVQQqEwVEYXZpZDEWMBQGA1UEAxMNRGF2aWQgUmVpdHRlcjEmMCQGCSqG SIb3DQEJARYXZGF2aWQucmVpdHRlckBnbWFpbC5jb20wggEiMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBAQUAA4IBDwAw ggEKAoIBAQDhuoehK+SM/uai1CMVwn3NgRTTwqPpEBKKrr0RKTwxn+B9KFHUK033x4cV1zF4NsHx t8OG7uk25ZRnBdf2xGC4Dmz2LiGKKhps+EkGzxFuKA3Q8WbXv7stEsS1ALl/mapcaOXTukzKGcu9 wYFpmSi+PMc/61Th7A9T3bBNQcC2rKuILcaB3GM4ajekoEKFEPx/sTtMhGOLLwb5JcrWhxD0ADIA S1woY1PS3BJ4YTzPPkZMul46s7riV6CPd2gjnSn2aGvgXHTOHz7tOWmD4phVZ/THQ7nGLnIPy7gi HfXKvJ3IlM2NcHrgAGMNHaDwSWkdNdNhFe2rsoGTvLRF/fXVAgMBAAGjNDAyMCIGA1UdEQQbMBmB F2RhdmlkLnJlaXR0ZXJAZ21haWwuY29tMAwGA1UdEwEB/wQCMAAwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEEBQADgYEA QxQdE8kyJWkgofiVLxnFYttKuNAkgP0vumRW7Jxc93TX56z3Y6j0pZiYFQcTOYkjdWFsPUSDdnIl X26P8/ZiCDosSNAeXHaizmoNjl+RkopgKxC7Th6hY0ZrEC5e0733wzeB8O8L05JX1x7KSMrjjX/s i5F5LSZMRP+o63kulIQwggM/MIICqKADAgECAgENMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBBQUAMIHRMQswCQYDVQQG EwJaQTEVMBMGA1UECBMMV2VzdGVybiBDYXBlMRIwEAYDVQQHEwlDYXBlIFRvd24xGjAYBgNVBAoT EVRoYXd0ZSBDb25zdWx0aW5nMSgwJgYDVQQLEx9DZXJ0aWZpY2F0aW9uIFNlcnZpY2VzIERpdmlz aW9uMSQwIgYDVQQDExtUaGF3dGUgUGVyc29uYWwgRnJlZW1haWwgQ0ExKzApBgkqhkiG9w0BCQEW HHBlcnNvbmFsLWZyZWVtYWlsQHRoYXd0ZS5jb20wHhcNMDMwNzE3MDAwMDAwWhcNMTMwNzE2MjM1 OTU5WjBiMQswCQYDVQQGEwJaQTElMCMGA1UEChMcVGhhd3RlIENvbnN1bHRpbmcgKFB0eSkgTHRk LjEsMCoGA1UEAxMjVGhhd3RlIFBlcnNvbmFsIEZyZWVtYWlsIElzc3VpbmcgQ0EwgZ8wDQYJKoZI hvcNAQEBBQADgY0AMIGJAoGBAMSmPFVzVftOucqZWh5owHUEcJ3f6f+jHuy9zfVb8hp2vX8MOmHy v1HOAdTlUAow1wJjWiyJFXCO3cnwK4Vaqj9xVsuvPAsH5/EfkTYkKhPPK9Xzgnc9A74r/rsYPge/ QIACZNenprufZdHFKlSFD0gEf6e20TxhBEAeZBlyYLf7AgMBAAGjgZQwgZEwEgYDVR0TAQH/BAgw BgEB/wIBADBDBgNVHR8EPDA6MDigNqA0hjJodHRwOi8vY3JsLnRoYXd0ZS5jb20vVGhhd3RlUGVy c29uYWxGcmVlbWFpbENBLmNybDALBgNVHQ8EBAMCAQYwKQYDVR0RBCIwIKQeMBwxGjAYBgNVBAMT EVByaXZhdGVMYWJlbDItMTM4MA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBBQUAA4GBAEiM0VCD6gsuzA2jZqxnD3+vrL7C F6FDlpSdf0whuPg2H6otnzYvwPQcUCCTcDz9reFhYsPZOhl+hLGZGwDFGguCdJ4lUJRix9sncVcl jd2pnDmOjCBPZV+V2vf3h9bGCE6u9uo05RAaWzVNd+NWIXiC3CEZNd4ksdMdRv9dX2VPMYIC5zCC AuMCAQEwaTBiMQswCQYDVQQGEwJaQTElMCMGA1UEChMcVGhhd3RlIENvbnN1bHRpbmcgKFB0eSkg THRkLjEsMCoGA1UEAxMjVGhhd3RlIFBlcnNvbmFsIEZyZWVtYWlsIElzc3VpbmcgQ0ECAw3xWjAJ BgUrDgMCGgUAoIIBUzAYBgkqhkiG9w0BCQMxCwYJKoZIhvcNAQcBMBwGCSqGSIb3DQEJBTEPFw0w NTExMTAyMDI5MzZaMCMGCSqGSIb3DQEJBDEWBBSg1mFH9btiZpjSiGWD3/mxvHiLwjB4BgkrBgEE AYI3EAQxazBpMGIxCzAJBgNVBAYTAlpBMSUwIwYDVQQKExxUaGF3dGUgQ29uc3VsdGluZyAoUHR5 KSBMdGQuMSwwKgYDVQQDEyNUaGF3dGUgUGVyc29uYWwgRnJlZW1haWwgSXNzdWluZyBDQQIDDfFa MHoGCyqGSIb3DQEJEAILMWugaTBiMQswCQYDVQQGEwJaQTElMCMGA1UEChMcVGhhd3RlIENvbnN1 bHRpbmcgKFB0eSkgTHRkLjEsMCoGA1UEAxMjVGhhd3RlIFBlcnNvbmFsIEZyZWVtYWlsIElzc3Vp bmcgQ0ECAw3xWjANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQEFAASCAQDAd1Axiaqwoi2NchxCYuAGoNv7cLsnYcz++05z UYidKyLTrCzeOOsgfLhvqc8nZLJ9N748ZYFGkvVjtTvbCcXQarLLwaZlcSxQRzBBZjfZPWreZ6pc B3aKnrGiI+uYsOENdsA6uNsmwAs32Cy29iK8mmnJbolvl2UFE9onDnWofAjM1kf28XbOl2HTFOU8 7DM40W+Q5B9BnqsLrMdfKw6L3UtDeHCJS09H0atSAVv3TM8U3EC0OdZ4DZjl+KiV4ug7Klc6Vl72 fnKAtfDPYcDmnfOTV936h6OQA3lBePeoWrQp+MJDuWFXUi5w1GGoYRAO1RZy+bTMUgw88nIsO1cz AAAAAAAA --Apple-Mail-17-876036934-- --===============1300952603== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Emacs-devel mailing list Emacs-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-devel --===============1300952603==--