From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Chad Brown Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs, QT and Cairo Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 14:36:00 -0700 Message-ID: <88F986A4-7DB6-4478-B0C8-23AE9E44089C@mit.edu> References: <4C3CD120.4040905@swipnet.se> <5A91499A-0470-43FD-9F48-560CEAD3424C@mit.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1081) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-1--835833555 X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1280266580 23201 80.91.229.12 (27 Jul 2010 21:36:20 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 21:36:20 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Emacs development discussions To: Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Jul 27 23:36:18 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Odros-0008MR-Ep for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 27 Jul 2010 23:36:14 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36797 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Odror-0004Wv-VP for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 27 Jul 2010 17:36:14 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=41039 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Odrol-0004Wp-TE for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 27 Jul 2010 17:36:08 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Odrok-0000Xn-Rv for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 27 Jul 2010 17:36:08 -0400 Original-Received: from dmz-mailsec-scanner-3.mit.edu ([18.9.25.14]:51135) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Odrok-0000Xc-Nj for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 27 Jul 2010 17:36:06 -0400 X-AuditID: 1209190e-b7bbeae000000a09-bd-4c4f51470b3e Original-Received: from mailhub-auth-1.mit.edu (MAILHUB-AUTH-1.MIT.EDU [18.9.21.35]) by dmz-mailsec-scanner-3.mit.edu (Symantec Brightmail Gateway) with SMTP id B0.15.02569.7415F4C4; Tue, 27 Jul 2010 17:36:08 -0400 (EDT) Original-Received: from outgoing.mit.edu (OUTGOING-AUTH.MIT.EDU [18.7.22.103]) by mailhub-auth-1.mit.edu (8.13.8/8.9.2) with ESMTP id o6RLa5B8017447; Tue, 27 Jul 2010 17:36:05 -0400 Original-Received: from [10.0.0.41] ([64.241.37.140]) (authenticated bits=0) (User authenticated as yandros@ATHENA.MIT.EDU) by outgoing.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.4) with ESMTP id o6RLa1Fa002670 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Tue, 27 Jul 2010 17:36:04 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1081) X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAARVGFDQ= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:127891 Archived-At: --Apple-Mail-1--835833555 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 On Jul 27, 2010, at 2:24 PM, Stefan Monnier wrote: >=20 > I don't know about remote uses (I don't use them very often other than > through terminal emulators), but at least local redisplay is currently > borderline too slow in many of my use cases. Now I don't have much of > a clue about where the time is spent (maybe it's not really in > redisplay), but at least performance is still an issue. I agree entirely, and yet many of the other editors that are doing = similar=20 things (by which I mean primarily syntax-aware highlighting of various=20= stripes) seem to be faster (at that part) than emacs and yet rely more=20= heavily on graphical toolkits and provided widgets for such features. = I=20 don't think that we could just `switch' to such techniques for emacs, = but it might be interesting to see how much more we could lean on existing gui efforts. Basically, I'm guessing that those projects spend a lot of = time on=20 graphical performance, and wondering (blue-sky, again) if we mightn't be=20= able to add some capability and also some performance by trying to make more use of other people's efforts. For (very rough) example, the=20 conversation between Yamamoto Mitsuharu and Jan Dj=E4rv about using=20 toolkit exposure/clipping handling rather than trying to add our own. My feeling is that redisplay's slowness comes from complicated font-lock operations and the like. Are there any other known sources of slow = local redisplay? =20 *Chad= --Apple-Mail-1--835833555 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1

I don't know = about remote uses (I don't use them very often other than
through = terminal emulators), but at least local redisplay is = currently
borderline too slow in many of my use cases.  Now I = don't have much of
a clue about where the time is spent (maybe it's = not really in
redisplay), but at least performance is still an = issue.

I agree entirely, and yet many = of the other editors that are doing similar 
things (by = which I mean primarily syntax-aware highlighting of = various 
stripes) seem to be faster (at that part) than = emacs and yet rely more 
heavily on graphical toolkits = and provided widgets for such features.   I 
don't = think that we could just `switch' to such techniques for emacs, but = it
might be interesting to see how much more we could lean on = existing gui
efforts.  Basically, I'm guessing that those = projects spend a lot of time on 
graphical performance, = and wondering (blue-sky, again) if we mightn't be 
able = to add some capability and also some performance by trying to = make
more use of other people's efforts.  For (very = rough) example, the 
conversation between Yamamoto = Mitsuharu and Jan Dj=E4rv about using 
toolkit = exposure/clipping handling rather than trying to add our = own.

My feeling is that redisplay's slowness = comes from complicated font-lock
operations and the like. =   Are there any other known sources of slow = local
redisplay? =   

*Chad
= --Apple-Mail-1--835833555--