From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Drew Adams" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: C-x C-e with prefix arg Date: Mon, 6 May 2013 00:00:32 -0700 Message-ID: <88878C7DA62F4DC792EEEE03D46C115B@us.oracle.com> References: <4D5891EF34DF42D3A479CF83CAF1E43E@us.oracle.com><87zjw97qo7.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <87zjw9z0fk.fsf@mail.jurta.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1367823662 24978 80.91.229.3 (6 May 2013 07:01:02 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 6 May 2013 07:01:02 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: "'Juri Linkov'" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon May 06 09:00:56 2013 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1UZFPq-0000O8-Vj for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 06 May 2013 09:00:55 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:52900 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UZFPq-0002Lf-K1 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 06 May 2013 03:00:54 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:33987) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UZFPl-0002LV-I2 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 06 May 2013 03:00:51 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UZFPk-0003dd-2U for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 06 May 2013 03:00:49 -0400 Original-Received: from userp1040.oracle.com ([156.151.31.81]:44887) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UZFPj-0003dO-Q3 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 06 May 2013 03:00:47 -0400 Original-Received: from acsinet22.oracle.com (acsinet22.oracle.com [141.146.126.238]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.1/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.1) with ESMTP id r4670hms023484 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 6 May 2013 07:00:44 GMT Original-Received: from userz7021.oracle.com (userz7021.oracle.com [156.151.31.85]) by acsinet22.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r4670hJd021877 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 6 May 2013 07:00:43 GMT Original-Received: from abhmt113.oracle.com (abhmt113.oracle.com [141.146.116.65]) by userz7021.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r4670gUV013139; Mon, 6 May 2013 07:00:42 GMT Original-Received: from dradamslap1 (/71.202.147.44) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Mon, 06 May 2013 00:00:42 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <87zjw9z0fk.fsf@mail.jurta.org> Thread-Index: Ac5JyiyN28DQf8FQRByidF04xg7nAAAVhpCg X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6157 X-Source-IP: acsinet22.oracle.com [141.146.126.238] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.4.x-2.6.x [generic] X-Received-From: 156.151.31.81 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:159363 Archived-At: > > * Negative in this case is mnemonic for "less". It hints at the > > elision/abbreviation. > > Fine, then use the symbol `-' (just a minus sign) as the prefix arg. OK by me. +1. (I assume you mean keys `C--' and `M--', which lead to symbol `-' as the raw prefix arg.) > > IMHO, the proposal I made is better, but I really don't > > care. I never use either `eval-last-sexp' or > > `eval-print-last-sexp', personally. I use > > `pp-eval-last-sexp' instead (and my own version of it), > > and I use *scratch* in Emacs-Lisp mode (so C-j is not > > `eval-print-last-sexp'). > > I like your proposal, but I strive to find the most > appropriate prefix arg that could be shared between lists > and numeric output of `C-x C-e', `M-:', and `C-j'. i.e. the > same prefix arg to define whether to print the full > list value or not, and whether to print full information about numbers > (octal, hexadecimal). This is required for bug#12985. As I said, I really don't care whether or what changes are made. Use your judgment - I'm fine with whatever you decide. --- FWIW, I also don't think, personally, that we ever should have (in Emacs 22) cobbled a print-integer-value-in-different-radixes functionality onto the eval-and-maybe-print functionality. To be clear, I mean the following (mis)feature, which applies `eval-expression-print-format' to the last evaluation value (i.e., the car of `values'), in `eval-expression': "**** Typing C-x C-e twice prints the value of the integer result in additional formats (octal, hexadecimal, character) specified by the new function `eval-expression-print-format'. The same function also defines the result format for `eval-expression' (M-:), `eval-print-last-sexp' (C-j) and some edebug evaluation functions." - from the NEWS, Emacs 22 Personally, I think that was a dumb - er - misguided user interface that never should have been plopped on top of the longstanding eval-and-maybe-print functionality. Others are free, of course, to think it is handy and extremely clever. The surprise expressed by Kelly Dean in his report for bug #12985 supports my view of the UI somewhat, I think. The right fix is not just to document the feature (finally, years after it was introduced) but to just rip it out. (There are other ways to print an integer value in various formats, and it is easy enough to have a separate command that does just that.) But I doubt the feature will be removed in consequence.