From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#16038: 24.3; latest change to with-help-window makes temp-buffer-browse useless Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2014 09:33:18 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <880b4937-a959-496b-9e20-b47f9ba3bce6@default> References: <52D14E9F.5030001@gmx.at> <52D16627.4080604@gmx.at> <52D2661A.4000105@gmx.at> <90f208e1-9ab5-4b8c-9e4c-2dddf8c1868b@default> <52E28AAF.2030803@gmx.at> <52E38209.6080506@gmx.at> <52E3EAD0.2070701@gmx.at> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1390671258 7160 80.91.229.3 (25 Jan 2014 17:34:18 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2014 17:34:18 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Leo Liu , 16038@debbugs.gnu.org To: martin rudalics Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Jan 25 18:34:24 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1W777d-0000Po-SP for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 25 Jan 2014 18:34:22 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:52035 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1W777d-0003VD-Ct for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 25 Jan 2014 12:34:21 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:54057) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1W777S-0003V8-Nr for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 25 Jan 2014 12:34:19 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1W777K-0008E4-5p for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 25 Jan 2014 12:34:10 -0500 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.43]:50070) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1W777K-0008E0-2g for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 25 Jan 2014 12:34:02 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1W777J-00049q-OZ for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 25 Jan 2014 12:34:01 -0500 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2014 17:34:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 16038 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 16038-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B16038.139067120215922 (code B ref 16038); Sat, 25 Jan 2014 17:34:01 +0000 Original-Received: (at 16038) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Jan 2014 17:33:22 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35856 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1W776f-00048i-NK for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 25 Jan 2014 12:33:22 -0500 Original-Received: from userp1040.oracle.com ([156.151.31.81]:28475) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1W776d-00048Z-0C for 16038@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 25 Jan 2014 12:33:19 -0500 Original-Received: from ucsinet21.oracle.com (ucsinet21.oracle.com [156.151.31.93]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id s0PHXHKA012188 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 25 Jan 2014 17:33:18 GMT Original-Received: from userz7021.oracle.com (userz7021.oracle.com [156.151.31.85]) by ucsinet21.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id s0PHXHFT019549 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 25 Jan 2014 17:33:17 GMT Original-Received: from abhmp0003.oracle.com (abhmp0003.oracle.com [141.146.116.9]) by userz7021.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id s0PHXGK4019542; Sat, 25 Jan 2014 17:33:16 GMT In-Reply-To: <52E3EAD0.2070701@gmx.at> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.8 (707110) [OL 12.0.6680.5000 (x86)] X-Source-IP: ucsinet21.oracle.com [156.151.31.93] X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 140.186.70.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:84005 Archived-At: > > Maybe you should try to fix this problem: > > > But I have no code that uses `with-temp-buffer-window'. > > > > What problem? Just what are you suggesting, concretely? > > What's the relation to fixing bug #8368? >=20 > First re-read the thread of bug#8368. Then read the doc-string of > `with-temp-buffer-window'. Then re-read the thread of bug#8368. > Then re-read the doc-string ... I have. But why do you say that -- is bug #8368 fixed? If you have a concrete suggestion, please offer it. And what is the "problem" that needs fixing with my not having any code that uses `with-temp-buffer-window'? If bug #8368 is now fixed, great: What code to replace with what code, concretely? Are the misnamed macros and hooks being renamed as well? I don't see that in the doc string of `with-temp-buffer-window'. If a macro and the hooks it uses are all about *Help* then they should not be named `with-output-to-temp-buffer', `temp-buffer-setup-hook' etc. They should have "help" in their names instead of "temp". =3D=3D=3D> bug #8368. Adding new hooks that have almost the same names but very different meanings and uses is a bad idea. `temp-buffer-window-setup-hook' and `temp-buffer-setup-hook' sound like they would be similar, with the difference being "window". Alas no. I don't have a problem with your new names. The problem is with the old names, and with not deprecating them, _especially_ after adding false-friend new names. The old macros and hooks should be renamed to use "help" - with aliases provided for the old names, with deprecation of the old names, and preferably with no plan to _ever_ desupport the old names. (Deprecation does not imply desupport. It allows for later desupport, but in some cases desupport is not possible or advisable or necessary.) FWIW, the NEWS is, I would think, one good place to put deprecation notices. If `with-output-to-temp-buffer' is deprecated, we should learn in the NEWS that this is the case AND what it is replaced by. IOW, tell users how to update their code. Likewise for the misnamed hooks etc. Instead, at least so far, NEWS has only this:=20 *** New macro `with-temp-buffer-window', similar to `with-output-to-temp-buffer'. That "similar to" might do more harm than help.