From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Juri Linkov Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Possible change to startup.el Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2005 07:03:21 +0300 Organization: JURTA Message-ID: <87zmwjia6u.fsf@jurta.org> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1112329217 5886 80.91.229.2 (1 Apr 2005 04:20:17 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2005 04:20:17 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Apr 01 06:20:15 2005 Return-path: Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by ciao.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1DHDdY-0006Nf-R9 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 01 Apr 2005 06:20:01 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1DHDuN-0006Eb-VY for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 31 Mar 2005 23:37:24 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1DHDoY-0002iw-R8 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 31 Mar 2005 23:31:23 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1DHDoW-0002hd-Pf for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 31 Mar 2005 23:31:21 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1DHDoW-0002gr-H7 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 31 Mar 2005 23:31:20 -0500 Original-Received: from [194.126.101.100] (helo=MXR-8.estpak.ee) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1DHDYf-0001cI-U3 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 31 Mar 2005 23:14:58 -0500 Original-Received: from mail.neti.ee (80-235-32-153-dsl.mus.estpak.ee [80.235.32.153]) by MXR-8.estpak.ee (Postfix) with ESMTP id A6C0F40BAB; Fri, 1 Apr 2005 07:14:55 +0300 (EEST) Original-To: ttn@glug.org In-Reply-To: (Thien-Thi Nguyen's message of "Thu, 31 Mar 2005 14:01:20 +0200") User-Agent: Gnus/5.110002 (No Gnus v0.2) Emacs/22.0.50 (gnu/linux) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:35461 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:35461 > there are five elements on the tutorial line: > > TITLE -- "Emacs Tutorial" translated for the current language env > EN-TITLE -- English text "Emacs Tutorial" > EN-BLURB -- English text "Learn-by-doing tutorial ... efficiently." > tab -- a tab character (0x9) > LIST-OF-AVAILABLE-TUTORIALS -- list of locale suffixes > > the pre-patch presentation format is: > > EN-TITLE tab EN-BLURB > > the patched presentation format is: > > (if data-directory is not availble) > EN-TITLE tab EN-BLURB > > (if filename resolved from consulting language env is "TUTORIAL") > EN-TITLE tab LIST-OF-AVAILABLE-TUTORIALS > > (otherwise) > TITLE tab (EN-TITLE) LIST-OF-AVAILABLE-TUTORIALS > > what do you propose for the presentation format, based on these > conditions and elements? Since the splash screen displays menu items, I think that the last case (labelled as `otherwise') should have two lines with menu items: Important Help menu items: EN-TITLE tab EN-BLURB EN-TITLE-LANG tab TITLE LIST-OF-AVAILABLE-TUTORIALS where EN-TITLE-LANG is the menu item with English text "Emacs Tutorial (choose language)..." And for the case `(if filename resolved from consulting language env is "TUTORIAL")': Important Help menu items: EN-TITLE tab EN-BLURB EN-TITLE-LANG tab LIST-OF-AVAILABLE-TUTORIALS This raises another issue: I can't imagine how a non-English speaking novice can start the tutorial? Well, if we now add the English menu item "Emacs Tutorial (choose language)..." to the splash screen then she might find it under the Help menu and select it. This creates the buffer with a list of language completion. But how she can select a language when she knows nothing about Emacs! With keyboard, cursor keys don't work because she has to switch buffers with `C-x o' to the completion buffer. And even the left mouse button doesn't work when slowly clicked on a language in the completion buffer with a delay more than 350ms! -- Juri Linkov http://www.jurta.org/emacs/