emacs in xterm

emacs in xterm

[zeycus]

Hi everybody. I am new to Debian (and Linux, in general), and I am having a
problem with something. I am used to emacs in normal terminals. Now I
started using X-windows, and when I type the command 'emacs' in a xterm it
is xemacs which is launched, with a fancy window, different font, etc. But,
what if I prefer the old behaviour, expecting that emacs would make use of
the whole particular xterm from which it is launched? I wish just that, with
the same font I am using in that xterm, etc. The way it behaves if I launch
emacs before starting theX-windows.

Forgive me if this question is well-known and explained, I did not manage to
solve it. Thanks in advance!
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Re: emacs in xterm

[Colin S. Miller]

zeycus wrote:
> Hi everybody. I am new to Debian (and Linux, in general), and I am having a
> problem with something. I am used to emacs in normal terminals. Now I
> started using X-windows, and when I type the command 'emacs' in a xterm it
> is xemacs which is launched, with a fancy window, different font, etc. But,
> what if I prefer the old behaviour, expecting that emacs would make use of
> the whole particular xterm from which it is launched? I wish just that, with
> the same font I am using in that xterm, etc. The way it behaves if I launch
> emacs before starting theX-windows.
> 
> Forgive me if this question is well-known and explained, I did not manage to
> solve it. Thanks in advance!

If you really want to run emacs in a terminal, use
emacs -nw

(no window)


BTW,
You can configure the which font emacs uses via the .Xresources file,
or the customise menu (this might be beta emacs only; I use Xemacs which
has had font customisation in the main release for a while now).

HTH,
Colin S. Miller


-- 
Replace the obvious in my email address with the first three letters of the hostname to reply.

Re: emacs in xterm

[jmg3000]

zeycus wrote:
> Hi everybody. I am new to Debian (and Linux, in general), and I am having a
> problem with something. I am used to emacs in normal terminals. Now I
> started using X-windows, and when I type the command 'emacs' in a xterm it
> is xemacs which is launched, with a fancy window, different font, etc. But,
> what if I prefer the old behaviour, expecting that emacs would make use of
> the whole particular xterm from which it is launched? I wish just that, with
> the same font I am using in that xterm, etc. The way it behaves if I launch
> emacs before starting theX-windows.

Well, this doesn't seem to be Debian- or xterm-related. Also, if you
have only the "emacs" packages installed (not xemacs), XEmacs doesn't
factor in here either. Sounds like you should check the GNU Emacs
manual for this, like so:

info emacs

Hm. Let's scroll down to "* Command Arguments::", since it mentions
startup options. We want emacs to startup in the shell instead of a new
X window. (to use that menu, scroll down 'til the cursor is on it
somewhere, then hit RET)

Ok, this looks right. Let's go to "* Initial Options::", since it says
it's related to stuff that takes effect when we start emacs.

There we are! The answer is the third one down! :) Hit q to quit.

BTW, now that you know how to navigate info with arrow keys (or
C-n/C-p) and the Return key, try it the fast way:

info emacs RET
m command a TAB RET m ini TAB RET

(note, hitting TAB gets you autocomplete with those menu names) :)

For more quick help on using the info command, besides the manual (and
built-in tutorial), you could look at my quick help sheet if you like:
http://www.simisen.com/jmg/notes/info_command.html

---John

Re: emacs in xterm

[don provan]

zeycus <miguelgarciadiaz@ono.com> writes:

> But what if I prefer the old behaviour, expecting that emacs would
> make use of the whole particular xterm from which it is launched? I
> wish just that, with the same font I am using in that xterm, etc.
> The way it behaves if I launch emacs before starting theX-windows.

You've got your answer from Mr. Miller, but let me just add that you
might want to give X a chance. I know from personal experience that
the change can be unsettling, but once you get used to multiple
windows for the same edit session and all the other advantages to
emacs under a full window system, there's just no going back. I can
only just barely remember what it was like running emacs stuck in a
single terminal screen. You can't even use you mouse to point at
things, can you?
-don

Re: emacs in xterm

[zeycus]

Thank you! Not only you game me the information I needed, but also the
way I should have got it myself. So, I made one question and you aswered
both :-)

Much better than just replaying "-nw" :-)




John Gabriele wrote:
> 
> zeycus wrote:
>> Hi everybody. I am new to Debian (and Linux, in general), and I am having
>> a
>> problem with something. I am used to emacs in normal terminals. Now I
>> started using X-windows, and when I type the command 'emacs' in a xterm
>> it
>> is xemacs which is launched, with a fancy window, different font, etc.
>> But,
>> what if I prefer the old behaviour, expecting that emacs would make use
>> of
>> the whole particular xterm from which it is launched? I wish just that,
>> with
>> the same font I am using in that xterm, etc. The way it behaves if I
>> launch
>> emacs before starting theX-windows.
> 
> Well, this doesn't seem to be Debian- or xterm-related. Also, if you
> have only the "emacs" packages installed (not xemacs), XEmacs doesn't
> factor in here either. Sounds like you should check the GNU Emacs
> manual for this, like so:
> 
> info emacs
> 
> Hm. Let's scroll down to "* Command Arguments::", since it mentions
> startup options. We want emacs to startup in the shell instead of a new
> X window. (to use that menu, scroll down 'til the cursor is on it
> somewhere, then hit RET)
> 
> Ok, this looks right. Let's go to "* Initial Options::", since it says
> it's related to stuff that takes effect when we start emacs.
> 
> There we are! The answer is the third one down! :) Hit q to quit.
> 
> BTW, now that you know how to navigate info with arrow keys (or
> C-n/C-p) and the Return key, try it the fast way:
> 
> info emacs RET
> m command a TAB RET m ini TAB RET
> 
> (note, hitting TAB gets you autocomplete with those menu names) :)
> 
> For more quick help on using the info command, besides the manual (and
> built-in tutorial), you could look at my quick help sheet if you like:
> http://www.simisen.com/jmg/notes/info_command.html
> 
> ---John
> 
> _______________________________________________
> help-gnu-emacs mailing list
> help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/help-gnu-emacs
> 
> 

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Re: emacs in xterm

[zeycus]

Thank you, it's EXACTLY what I wanted!


Colin S. Miller-2 wrote:
> 
> zeycus wrote:
>> Hi everybody. I am new to Debian (and Linux, in general), and I am having
>> a
>> problem with something. I am used to emacs in normal terminals. Now I
>> started using X-windows, and when I type the command 'emacs' in a xterm
>> it
>> is xemacs which is launched, with a fancy window, different font, etc.
>> But,
>> what if I prefer the old behaviour, expecting that emacs would make use
>> of
>> the whole particular xterm from which it is launched? I wish just that,
>> with
>> the same font I am using in that xterm, etc. The way it behaves if I
>> launch
>> emacs before starting theX-windows.
>> 
>> Forgive me if this question is well-known and explained, I did not manage
>> to
>> solve it. Thanks in advance!
> 
> If you really want to run emacs in a terminal, use
> emacs -nw
> 
> (no window)
> 
> 
> BTW,
> You can configure the which font emacs uses via the .Xresources file,
> or the customise menu (this might be beta emacs only; I use Xemacs which
> has had font customisation in the main release for a while now).
> 
> HTH,
> Colin S. Miller
> 
> 
> -- 
> Replace the obvious in my email address with the first three letters of
> the hostname to reply.
> _______________________________________________
> help-gnu-emacs mailing list
> help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/help-gnu-emacs
> 
> 

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Re: emacs in xterm

[David Hansen]

On Sat, 28 Oct 2006 09:42:06 -0700 don provan wrote:

> zeycus <miguelgarciadiaz@ono.com> writes:
>
>> But what if I prefer the old behaviour, expecting that emacs would
>> make use of the whole particular xterm from which it is launched? I
>> wish just that, with the same font I am using in that xterm, etc.
>> The way it behaves if I launch emacs before starting theX-windows.
>
> You've got your answer from Mr. Miller, but let me just add that you
> might want to give X a chance. I know from personal experience that
> the change can be unsettling, but once you get used to multiple
> windows for the same edit session and all the other advantages to
> emacs under a full window system, there's just no going back. I can
> only just barely remember what it was like running emacs stuck in a
> single terminal screen. You can't even use you mouse to point at
> things, can you?

More a matter of taste...  I run Emacs in a X frame but only
to have more colors and to be able to see images in shimbun or
rss articles.  I never use the rodent or more than one frame.

David

Re: emacs in xterm

[Floyd L. Davidson]

don provan <dprovan@comcast.net> wrote:
>zeycus <miguelgarciadiaz@ono.com> writes:
>
>> But what if I prefer the old behaviour, expecting that emacs would
>> make use of the whole particular xterm from which it is launched? I
>> wish just that, with the same font I am using in that xterm, etc.
>> The way it behaves if I launch emacs before starting theX-windows.
>
>You've got your answer from Mr. Miller, but let me just add that you
>might want to give X a chance. I know from personal experience that
...

Don is right.  Let me expand on that, though this is not
something you need to dive into implementing immediately.  Keep
it in mind as what you can do as you become familiar with Linux
and begin look for ways to fine tune your working environment
for more efficiency.

Not only do you want (X)Emacs to run in its own window, you want
to run it as an edit server.  The server can be started by your
login shell, by whatever mechanism you use to start X, or
manually.  It can be unmapped so there is no window when it
starts.

Instead of the slow process of invoking the entire huge (X)Emacs
program, to edit something you invoke a very small client
program which takes about half an instant to run. It remembers
the last search pattern you used and various other odd things,
which you will come to find useful.

There are any number of ways to set up an edit server.  Here are
the basics of how I do it.  First, I have a couple of things in
my ~/.bashrc file that make it easier,

Programs wanting an editor, use gnuclient:

   EDITOR=gnuclient
   VISUAL=gnuclient
   EDIT=gnuclient
   FCEDIT=gnuclient

I have an alias that gives me a two letter command to invoke an
editor from the command line:

   alias em='/usr/local/bin/gnuclient'

This is a shell function I use to manually start an edit server.
It has to be run only once, and survives between logins.

   function startxemacs {
    (cd ~/    #put nohup.out file in home directory
     nohup /usr/local/bin/xemacs -l ~/.semacs \
        -unmapped -g 100x30+60+60 \
        -T "GNUserver" 2>/dev/null &)
   }

The above uses a special init file, ~/.semacs, which starts up the
gnuserv process.  It looks like this,

  ;; for GNU Emacs only
  (unless (featurep 'xemacs)
    (setq gnuserv-frame (current-frame)))

  (gnuserv-start)  ;Start up the gnu edit server process

  ;;  disallow exiting from a command  (menu option only)
  (defun do-exit ()
    "Exits Emacs or an Emacs client"
      (interactive)
      (if   (gnuserv-running-p)
      (if (eq gnuserv-clients nil) (delete-frame) (gnuserv-edit))))

  (define-key ctl-x-map "\C-c" 'do-exit)

  ;; end of file


There are of course times when the edit server is *not* what you
want to run.  You can run (X)Emacs as a non server process too.
I keep two of those running all the time on my workstation.  One
essentially works as a "notepad" that I have open all the time;
it is "sticky" and shows up in any virtual desktop that I move
to.  The other is full screen in one desktop, and run /gnus/ for
Usenet an email.  (It has so many buffers open that I want to
keep it entirely separate from the edit server.)

-- 
Floyd L. Davidson            <http://www.apaflo.com/floyd_davidson>
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska)                         floyd@apaflo.com

Re: emacs in xterm

[Malte Spiess]

don provan <dprovan@comcast.net> writes:

> zeycus <miguelgarciadiaz@ono.com> writes:
>
>> But what if I prefer the old behaviour, expecting that emacs would
>> make use of the whole particular xterm from which it is launched? I
>> wish just that, with the same font I am using in that xterm, etc.
>> The way it behaves if I launch emacs before starting theX-windows.
>
> You've got your answer from Mr. Miller, but let me just add that you
> might want to give X a chance. I know from personal experience that
> the change can be unsettling, but once you get used to multiple
> windows for the same edit session and all the other advantages to
> emacs under a full window system, there's just no going back. I can
> only just barely remember what it was like running emacs stuck in a
> single terminal screen. You can't even use you mouse to point at
> things, can you?
> -don

I totally agree. My gf didn't want to use the "window-mode" either at
first, but it definitely is way more comfortable, especially for
beginners, since the whole stuff with the menu etc can't be used too
good in text-mode. Most modes (like auctex, gnus,...) also have some
important commands bound to buttons in the top row.

Extra hint: I have bound the command "enw" to "emacs -nw" in the shell
in case I do want a text-based Emacs every once in a while for short
editing purposes.

Greetings

Malte

Re: emacs in xterm

[zeycus]

Wow, thank you for the opinions and suggestions! I am not sure yet,
whether or not I want to "jump" to the xemacs multi-window system,
but I'll give it a try!



don provan-2 wrote:
> 
> zeycus <miguelgarciadiaz@ono.com> writes:
> 
>> But what if I prefer the old behaviour, expecting that emacs would
>> make use of the whole particular xterm from which it is launched? I
>> wish just that, with the same font I am using in that xterm, etc.
>> The way it behaves if I launch emacs before starting theX-windows.
> 
> You've got your answer from Mr. Miller, but let me just add that you
> might want to give X a chance. I know from personal experience that
> the change can be unsettling, but once you get used to multiple
> windows for the same edit session and all the other advantages to
> emacs under a full window system, there's just no going back. I can
> only just barely remember what it was like running emacs stuck in a
> single terminal screen. You can't even use you mouse to point at
> things, can you?
> -don
> _______________________________________________
> help-gnu-emacs mailing list
> help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/help-gnu-emacs
> 
> 

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Re: emacs in xterm

[Michaël Cadilhac]

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zeycus <miguelgarciadiaz@ono.com> writes:

> don provan-2 wrote:
>> 
>> [...] once you get used to multiple windows [...]

> Wow, thank you for the opinions and suggestions! I am not sure yet,
> whether or not I want to "jump" to the xemacs multi-window system,
> but I'll give it a try!

I think that some gurus here would be tickled by reading this (OMG-ed)
shortcut « Emacs on X == XEmacs » :-)

You probably should have a read to, for example, the wikipedia page on
that ! XEmacs is not Emacs.

(Please add `GNU/' before every proper name !)

-- 
/!\ My mail address changed, please update your files accordingly.
 |      Michaël `Micha' Cadilhac   |    Le copillage-collage                |
 |         Epita/LRDE Promo 2007   |       tue le programmeur.              |
 |  http://michael.cadilhac.name   |           -- Dictons LRDE              |
 `--  -   JID: micha@amessage.be --'                                   -  --'

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Re: emacs in xterm

[Tim X]

zeycus <miguelgarciadiaz@ono.com> writes:

> Wow, thank you for the opinions and suggestions! I am not sure yet,
> whether or not I want to "jump" to the xemacs multi-window system,
> but I'll give it a try!

Note that Emacs and Xemacs are two totally *different* programs. GNU
Emacs can be built with and without X windows support. Most Linux
distributions include an Emacs and an Emacs-nox (or something
similar). The emacs with window support can also be run without the
X windows features using the -nw switch. 

Xemacs can only be run on an X windows system (i.e. you cannot run it
in a term or on the console etc). It represents a fork from the
original emacs sources which occured some years ago. While the two
emacs flavors are very similar, there are a number of internal
differences between the two, such as how they handle font locking. Its
not unusual to find elisp packages which have tests to determine if it
is running under GNU Emacs or Xemacs and then does flavor specific
stuff - this allows an elisp package to work under both systems. 

HTH

Tim
-- 
tcross (at) rapttech dot com dot au

Re: emacs in xterm

[Floyd L. Davidson]

Tim X <timx@nospam.dev.null> wrote:
>Xemacs can only be run on an X windows system (i.e. you cannot run it
>in a term or on the console etc).

Everything else was accurate, but in fact XEmacs can be run in a term
or on the console etc., just exactly the same as GNU Emacs by either
using the -nw option with the version built for X, or by building
it without X support.

-- 
Floyd L. Davidson            <http://www.apaflo.com/floyd_davidson>
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska)                         floyd@apaflo.com

Re: emacs in xterm

[zeycus]

Just now I found a kind message from Michaël pointing this out.
I apologize, I was completely unaware of this fact. As I explained
I am a newbie in Linux, so I naively thought
that GNU Xemacs was a sort of adaptation of GNU Emacs in X.
Now I see these are different things, but there was no offense
intended in my message, just plain ignorance.

Thank you for kindly making the situation clear to me.




Tim X-2 wrote:
> 
> zeycus <miguelgarciadiaz@ono.com> writes:
> 
>> Wow, thank you for the opinions and suggestions! I am not sure yet,
>> whether or not I want to "jump" to the xemacs multi-window system,
>> but I'll give it a try!
> 
> Note that Emacs and Xemacs are two totally *different* programs. GNU
> Emacs can be built with and without X windows support. Most Linux
> distributions include an Emacs and an Emacs-nox (or something
> similar). The emacs with window support can also be run without the
> X windows features using the -nw switch. 
> 
> Xemacs can only be run on an X windows system (i.e. you cannot run it
> in a term or on the console etc). It represents a fork from the
> original emacs sources which occured some years ago. While the two
> emacs flavors are very similar, there are a number of internal
> differences between the two, such as how they handle font locking. Its
> not unusual to find elisp packages which have tests to determine if it
> is running under GNU Emacs or Xemacs and then does flavor specific
> stuff - this allows an elisp package to work under both systems. 
> 
> HTH
> 
> Tim
> -- 
> tcross (at) rapttech dot com dot au
> _______________________________________________
> help-gnu-emacs mailing list
> help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/help-gnu-emacs
> 
> 

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Re: emacs in xterm

[Tim X]

floyd@apaflo.com (Floyd L. Davidson) writes:

> Tim X <timx@nospam.dev.null> wrote:
>>Xemacs can only be run on an X windows system (i.e. you cannot run it
>>in a term or on the console etc).
>
> Everything else was accurate, but in fact XEmacs can be run in a term
> or on the console etc., just exactly the same as GNU Emacs by either
> using the -nw option with the version built for X, or by building
> it without X support.
>

thanks for the correction - I wasn't aware of this.

Tim


-- 
tcross (at) rapttech dot com dot au

Re: emacs in xterm

[Tim X]

zeycus <miguelgarciadiaz@ono.com> writes:

> Just now I found a kind message from Michaël pointing this out.
> I apologize, I was completely unaware of this fact. As I explained
> I am a newbie in Linux, so I naively thought
> that GNU Xemacs was a sort of adaptation of GNU Emacs in X.
> Now I see these are different things, but there was no offense
> intended in my message, just plain ignorance.
>
> Thank you for kindly making the situation clear to me.
>

No offence was ever taken. Ignorance only becomes offensive when the
person either refuses to learn or when they somehow wave their
ignorance as a badge of pride. Being wrong is not a problem as long as
you are able to recognise it and admit your mistake - this is how we
learn. There is also know link between ignorance and intelligence.

Tim
-- 
tcross (at) rapttech dot com dot au