From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Kastrup Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: bidi-display-reordering is now non-nil by default Date: Thu, 04 Aug 2011 16:04:45 +0200 Organization: Organization?!? Message-ID: <87zkjp1ddu.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> References: <878vre95g3.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <87fwlm7fam.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <87bowa7dza.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <877h6y7chn.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <831ux6cv5o.fsf@gnu.org> <87d3gpku3o.fsf@gnus.org> <834o1ypa2b.fsf@gnu.org> <87sjphhnbj.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87k4ath4rd.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87ipqdgu1e.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1312466729 13897 80.91.229.12 (4 Aug 2011 14:05:29 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2011 14:05:29 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Aug 04 16:05:24 2011 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([140.186.70.17]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QoyY3-0006mW-GD for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 04 Aug 2011 16:05:20 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:60563 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1QoyY2-0001El-K3 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 04 Aug 2011 10:05:18 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]:37154) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1QoyXy-00013t-SH for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 04 Aug 2011 10:05:15 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1QoyXt-0002Wj-Uo for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 04 Aug 2011 10:05:14 -0400 Original-Received: from lo.gmane.org ([80.91.229.12]:37634) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1QoyXt-0002VV-Jh for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 04 Aug 2011 10:05:09 -0400 Original-Received: from list by lo.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QoyXl-0006Yv-Oi for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 04 Aug 2011 16:05:01 +0200 Original-Received: from p508ec270.dip.t-dialin.net ([80.142.194.112]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Thu, 04 Aug 2011 16:05:01 +0200 Original-Received: from dak by p508ec270.dip.t-dialin.net with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Thu, 04 Aug 2011 16:05:01 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Original-Lines: 27 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: p508ec270.dip.t-dialin.net X-Face: 2FEFf>]>q>2iw=B6, xrUubRI>pR&Ml9=ao@P@i)L:\urd*t9M~y1^:+Y]'C0~{mAl`oQuAl \!3KEIp?*w`|bL5qr,H)LFO6Q=qx~iH4DN; i"; /yuIsqbLLCh/!U#X[S~(5eZ41to5f%E@'ELIi$t^ Vc\LWP@J5p^rst0+('>Er0=^1{]M9!p?&:\z]|;&=NP3AhB!B_bi^]Pfkw User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:GUhIok9i4MpHMBbvkmkQKvYWwUA= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-Received-From: 80.91.229.12 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:142871 Archived-At: "Stephen J. Turnbull" writes: > Eli Zaretskii writes: > > > Precisely and explicitly, I think that using lossy conversions is not > > a good idea, if there are practical alternatives. Just visiting a > > file, then saving it without changes should produce the a byte stream > > that is identical to the original one. I hope you agree with that. > > I don't. Not in the context of Unicode. It should produce a sequence > of characters identical to the original one. Not having the same sequence of bytes is painful. There is a reason we aimed for that with MULE when possible (some Japanese coding systems don't make it possible) and with utf-8. However, that is utterly orthogonal to the question how to work with specially displayed/generated material like mode lines, group summaries, help texts and so on. For example, Emacs has a somewhat quaint mechanism called "fields". It would not make much sense to let directionality bleed over field borders into neighbouring neutral characters, effectively moving them visually across the field. -- David Kastrup