From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Stephen J. Turnbull" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: inclusion of emacs-w3m Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2012 15:26:45 +0900 Message-ID: <87zk4all22.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> References: <87txw9r9o2.fsf@kanis.fr> <871uihst4z.fsf@gnus.org> <87pq61k48h.fsf@kanis.fr> <87d320a6jd.fsf@gnus.org> <87ehm87sjz.fsf@zigzag.favinet> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1348813622 30982 80.91.229.3 (28 Sep 2012 06:27:02 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2012 06:27:02 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Thien-Thi Nguyen , Tekk , emacs devel To: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Sep 28 08:27:07 2012 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1THU2R-0008KL-Ui for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 28 Sep 2012 08:27:04 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:52438 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1THU2M-0001fA-Pq for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 28 Sep 2012 02:26:58 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:35030) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1THU2K-0001f5-KA for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 28 Sep 2012 02:26:57 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1THU2J-0003I0-Al for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 28 Sep 2012 02:26:56 -0400 Original-Received: from mgmt2.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp ([130.158.97.224]:34071) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1THU2J-0003Gc-0Z for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 28 Sep 2012 02:26:55 -0400 Original-Received: from uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp [130.158.99.156]) by mgmt2.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 737E79708DB; Fri, 28 Sep 2012 15:26:45 +0900 (JST) Original-Received: by uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 32F621A2C78; Fri, 28 Sep 2012 15:26:45 +0900 (JST) In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: VM 8.0.12-devo-585 under 21.5 (beta32) "habanero" b0d40183ac79 XEmacs Lucid (x86_64-unknown-linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-Received-From: 130.158.97.224 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:153655 Archived-At: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen writes: > Tekk writes: > > > Do you see it in modern pages though? general consensus for years has > > been to avoid using tables for handling the presentation structure. > > That must be a consensus amongst people who don't do much web design. > :-) That's true. But it's also a consensus among people who do so much web design that they need to chase away customers with sky-high prices that mortal managers (and their employers) can't afford to pay. So we rarely see their products. Unfortunately, both are far outnumbered by wage slaves in the middle who never heard of, let alone use, the "float" property. > Until then, is where it's at. I wish I could contest that. But even some of the designers I know who do know better say that they are slaves to their design tools for their bread and butter. Few clients are willing to pay for the time it takes to do CSS Zen Garden work, even when it's provably more usable. "Everybody I know uses IE at 1024x768 so who cares if it's even readable in anything else?" :-(