From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Marcin Borkowski Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Intermediate tutorial shipped with Emacs Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2015 21:25:21 +0200 Message-ID: <87zj0iqkim.fsf@mbork.pl> References: <87a8sjcfr6.fsf@earth.catern.com> <834miqrhza.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1442690764 20435 80.91.229.3 (19 Sep 2015 19:26:04 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2015 19:26:04 +0000 (UTC) To: Spencer Baugh , emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Sep 19 21:25:59 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ZdNlm-0004qy-4I for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 19 Sep 2015 21:25:58 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:47497 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZdNll-0006Lf-6o for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 19 Sep 2015 15:25:57 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:34253) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZdNlT-0006LM-Tx for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 19 Sep 2015 15:25:41 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZdNlQ-0002Ry-PQ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 19 Sep 2015 15:25:39 -0400 Original-Received: from mail.mojserwer.eu ([2a01:5e00:2:52::8]:57668) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZdNlQ-0002Rj-Hi for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 19 Sep 2015 15:25:36 -0400 Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.mojserwer.eu (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5AAC6F2003; Sat, 19 Sep 2015 21:25:33 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at mail.mojserwer.eu Original-Received: from mail.mojserwer.eu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.mojserwer.eu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Jnhbe094ScOY; Sat, 19 Sep 2015 21:25:31 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from localhost (103-115.echostar.pl [213.156.103.115]) by mail.mojserwer.eu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 5FF765F2043; Sat, 19 Sep 2015 21:25:30 +0200 (CEST) In-reply-to: <834miqrhza.fsf@gnu.org> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2a01:5e00:2:52::8 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:190112 Archived-At: On 2015-09-19, at 09:22, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> From: Spencer Baugh >> Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2015 22:19:41 -0400 >> >> As an example, consider narrowing. If a user didn't already know >> narrowing existed, they probably wouldn't even bother searching for the >> feature; it isn't obvious how useful until you know about it. A user >> without knowledge of narrowing would use other hacks. > > A very good example. Narrowing is described in the manual in a > 58-line section. How would you go about giving the user a "taste of" > narrowing, without essentially telling the same story in slightly > different words? It's not trivial (but not impossible, either). My 2 cents: * I like the idea of having "batteries included", and the tutorial being part of Emacs. However, aren't e.g. Sacha Chua's Emacs chats better for that purpose, where a human being explains his particular use-case? * Also, along these lines: maybe such tutorials should be centered around "scenarios", and not features? Like, take a "scenario" called "C editing". Then you can mention narrowing, compilation mode, maybe rgrep and a few other things. Or, take a scenario "HTML editing". Then you can have SGML mode, TRAMP, maybe Org-mode and exporting, etc. Also, in such tutorials it would make sense to mention ELPA packages (and possibly MELPA, too). Best, -- Marcin Borkowski http://octd.wmi.amu.edu.pl/en/Marcin_Borkowski Faculty of Mathematics and Computer Science Adam Mickiewicz University