From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: =?utf-8?Q?=C3=93scar_Fuentes?= Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Character folding in the pretest Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2016 21:40:53 +0100 Message-ID: <87zivg1a5m.fsf@wanadoo.es> References: <87mvriuk3a.fsf@gmail.com> <8737t9ex1p.fsf@petton.fr> <83oabxyf71.fsf@gnu.org> <56B230D1.90902@gmail.com> <87bn7x4i4o.fsf@wanadoo.es> <87d1sc4rin.fsf@djcbsoftware.nl> <87vb6431rd.fsf@wanadoo.es> <56B37DF4.7000808@gmail.com> <87mvrg2zid.fsf@wanadoo.es> <56B38A15.90703@gmail.com> <874mdo2r8z.fsf@wanadoo.es> <56B3AF5C.7080403@gmail.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1454618481 27096 80.91.229.3 (4 Feb 2016 20:41:21 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2016 20:41:21 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Feb 04 21:41:13 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1aRQiG-0004wJ-Mj for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 04 Feb 2016 21:41:12 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:43968 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aRQiF-0005BZ-S2 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 04 Feb 2016 15:41:11 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:51473) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aRQiC-00058s-42 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 04 Feb 2016 15:41:09 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aRQi7-0003ea-4r for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 04 Feb 2016 15:41:08 -0500 Original-Received: from plane.gmane.org ([80.91.229.3]:35484) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aRQi6-0003eF-UC for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 04 Feb 2016 15:41:03 -0500 Original-Received: from list by plane.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1aRQi4-0004h4-GE for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 04 Feb 2016 21:41:00 +0100 Original-Received: from 1.red-83-38-42.dynamicip.rima-tde.net ([83.38.42.1]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Thu, 04 Feb 2016 21:41:00 +0100 Original-Received: from ofv by 1.red-83-38-42.dynamicip.rima-tde.net with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Thu, 04 Feb 2016 21:41:00 +0100 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Original-Lines: 36 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: 1.red-83-38-42.dynamicip.rima-tde.net User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:fwqSiGUUPBYpH4CNJ1T4xIT8ep8= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 80.91.229.3 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:199332 Archived-At: Clément Pit--Claudel writes: > My name is a good example in French. Clément and Clement are not > pronounced the same at all. I gave other examples in other messages. Sure, there are plenty of similar cases in Spanish. Every Spaniard knows that "canto" and "cantó" are different words and, most likely, will be not too upset or even happy while seeing isearch locating "cantó" when searching for "canto". But the same doesn't apply to n/ñ. If a Spaniard inputs "sana" on a search box and "saña" is found, he will regard the software as either buggy, dumb or completely oblivious to Spanish culture. I'm unable to make isearch-query-replace work (it gives me "isearch-query-replace: Wrong type argument: stringp, nil") but if the replaced elements are the same that gets found with Isearch, the n/ñ thing can produce lots of hilarious (or embarrassing) anecdotes :-) > I was not trying to change your POV; mostly to understand it. I think > you've described a use case that is not covered by the current > implementation (you want character folding to be smart, and to > recognize whether the user knows that ñ and n are more different than > á and a before folding deciding whether to fold ñ into n). But why > should your use case not being covered by the current implementation > prevent that implementation from becoming the default? We are talking about isearch here, the most basic and accessible way of text searching on Emacs. Introducing a change on how it works with the consequence of creating an "it is not a bug, it is a feature" experience for a fair chunk of the world's population seems like something that should give us pause. Personally, I'm fine with disabling the feature on my setup, but I'll advise against setting defaults that appeals to users who see foreign characters as glyphs instead of thinking on the users who actually see meaning on those characters.