From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Ted Zlatanov Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: debbugs tracker builds character Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2016 11:31:37 -0400 Organization: =?utf-8?B?0KLQtdC+0LTQvtGAINCX0LvQsNGC0LDQvdC+0LI=?= @ Cienfuegos Message-ID: <87zipc8gx2.fsf@lifelogs.com> References: <56BE7E37.3090708@cs.ucla.edu> <4hd1rw1ubr.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <83vb50wxhv.fsf@gnu.org> <87y49vz4cg.fsf@acer.localhost.com> <87twg2g86g.fsf@lifelogs.com> <83eg76n5h5.fsf@gnu.org> <87y45eeoor.fsf@lifelogs.com> <577D42BB.1020500@cs.ucla.edu> <87oa694rfw.fsf@russet.org.uk> <837fcxlbay.fsf@gnu.org> <87lh1d2wg5.fsf@russet.org.uk> <83eg75jk5h.fsf@gnu.org> <87lh1cb6p0.fsf@lifelogs.com> <87oa5sa176.fsf_-_@lifelogs.com> <874m7kmkcm.fsf@gmx.de> Reply-To: emacs-devel@gnu.org NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1469029800 1015 80.91.229.3 (20 Jul 2016 15:50:00 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2016 15:50:00 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Jul 20 17:49:53 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1bPtku-0001mO-R0 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 20 Jul 2016 17:49:53 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:35341 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bPtku-0004Zw-0O for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 20 Jul 2016 11:49:52 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:43313) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bPtTU-0007YB-JB for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 20 Jul 2016 11:31:56 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bPtTP-0000Zu-9f for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 20 Jul 2016 11:31:51 -0400 Original-Received: from plane.gmane.org ([80.91.229.3]:49747) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bPtTP-0000Zq-2h for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 20 Jul 2016 11:31:47 -0400 Original-Received: from list by plane.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1bPtTN-0007Qe-Ai for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 20 Jul 2016 17:31:45 +0200 Original-Received: from c-98-229-60-157.hsd1.ma.comcast.net ([98.229.60.157]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Wed, 20 Jul 2016 17:31:45 +0200 Original-Received: from tzz by c-98-229-60-157.hsd1.ma.comcast.net with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Wed, 20 Jul 2016 17:31:45 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Mail-Followup-To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-Lines: 48 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: c-98-229-60-157.hsd1.ma.comcast.net X-Face: bd.DQ~'29fIs`T_%O%C\g%6jW)yi[zuz6; d4V0`@y-~$#3P_Ng{@m+e4o<4P'#(_GJQ%TT= D}[Ep*b!\e,fBZ'j_+#"Ps?s2!4H2-Y"sx" Mail-Copies-To: never User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.1.50 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:+8EWJueFUJ9KWgAEgEqSy07adYA= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 80.91.229.3 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:205895 Archived-At: On Wed, 20 Jul 2016 16:53:45 +0200 Michael Albinus wrote: MA> Ted Zlatanov writes: >> I wish I knew why people find the current bug tracker acceptable. It >> reminds me of the old ftpmail/DEC gatekeeper where you sent e-mails >> requesting files: MA> One of the requirements for a bug tracker for Emacs was, that it must be MA> possible to control everything via email. That's one of the reasons MA> debbugs was chosen. IMHO that's not an actual requirement. It's an implementation detail. The actual requirement was probably about disconnected operation or something like that. It must accomplish something from the user's viewpoint (and sending e-mail, in itself, does not accomplish anything). On Wed, 20 Jul 2016 15:44:03 +0200 Lars Ingebrigtsen wrote: LI> The web interface? No, that's not a very pleasant interface, but I LI> think `M-x debbugs-gnu' is a better bug tracker interface than most. :-) There's a separation between the UI and the underlying functionality. IMHO, the underlying bug tracker is extremely limited. IMVHO, the `M-x debbugs-gnu' UI is decent but only because of a lot of hacking, and the same UI could be applied to other bug trackers. In other words, the reasons why it's good are not due to the bug tracker. I could be wrong on this, though, I don't know the internals well, I've just looked through the code. On Wed, 20 Jul 2016 16:58:24 +0200 Michael Albinus wrote: MA> Patches welcome! Or at least precise proposals what you would like to MA> get improved. "VCS integration" sounds too vague to me. The bug tracker should be aware of repositories, branches, commits, contributors, and ticket links or mentions in commit messages. Contributors should be able to tag and notify each other. Markdown etc. should be well supported. Inline code comments should be easy, and linked to a commit (so an updated commit can resolve the comment). This is just the essential stuff. I think this is not something you can solve with patches or good UI. It requires a tool architected correctly from the start. Such tools exist aplenty. Ted