From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: =?utf-8?B?w4Z2YXIgQXJuZmrDtnLDsA==?= Bjarmason Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Trying out GitLab (was Re: In support of Jonas Bernoulli's Magit) Date: Sat, 08 Jul 2017 14:43:44 +0200 Message-ID: <87zicf9jzz.fsf@gmail.com> References: <87poddqb5y.fsf@gnu.org> <871spsveyw.fsf@petton.fr> <87van4tzu9.fsf@petton.fr> <871spsla9r.fsf@lifelogs.com> <871sprb394.fsf@gmail.com> <640b51d5-9786-358c-985e-c55023acd75c@yandex.ru> <838tjzkuvs.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1499517842 15266 195.159.176.226 (8 Jul 2017 12:44:02 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2017 12:44:02 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Debian GNU/Linux 8.8 (jessie); Emacs 25.1.1; mu4e 0.9.19 Cc: tzz@lifelogs.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org, toon@iotcl.com, Dmitry Gutov To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Jul 08 14:43:58 2017 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1dTp5X-0003YS-98 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 08 Jul 2017 14:43:55 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:32826 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dTp5a-0002Tl-P4 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 08 Jul 2017 08:43:58 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:50702) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dTp5U-0002Td-KK for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 08 Jul 2017 08:43:53 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dTp5T-0004SJ-M6 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 08 Jul 2017 08:43:52 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-wr0-x231.google.com ([2a00:1450:400c:c0c::231]:34032) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dTp5P-0004Rq-Up; Sat, 08 Jul 2017 08:43:48 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-wr0-x231.google.com with SMTP id 77so80169902wrb.1; Sat, 08 Jul 2017 05:43:47 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:user-agent:in-reply-to:date :message-id:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=IRE4sVmwzmmBXumYZA8FDue7d6i1qY6sbQTSdcRGdas=; b=dqkolxkdOFSB7MoT7uU0DECSp0EJARAemaIynXceQLWU1BNC1o8Z5QKO1LX5rFtvgQ ka9okOARnNk6oLrA/JZ7z9w09SqdELeW2d3Eau3twZfB1J+Zt/tMgmhH1fD7ri0GJvWm SqAi4cADY91ga1ApvucHP0zHI4g+eeHPiJfknfmuaTNe29W0TK4VvOkuTZDWNvhmCK8Q oMfq/lUVSjEzPMn0Lvmz3UZKVsLGOlPAdj+7ep8e+vkR4tCormjhZbootBR8lxY1G3I+ oNYhgdFXMV1lSjwHsACN+zUbpsJOy8VxMdMH6VtTFfj4/SX4vuulKPtWJxjxwgJ205U4 M4kQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:references:user-agent :in-reply-to:date:message-id:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=IRE4sVmwzmmBXumYZA8FDue7d6i1qY6sbQTSdcRGdas=; b=ZI9OCwQNygqq0WMq13f1w2MkjDvE+5ESS0Eztr9SdhPR7ZEPtEfRzI9sSsbDzriclZ iJXIF/wvsbbkDn+2n7wbF7baC90eXcqDwGki53A9mS5qIG3zixwKDBhxZZmVgW4NQuT3 onDlhvnFhb/cJLaxuyAgAWMv58PnoP/tO3+c3GLqgczgxMCsbMaBr9nsC9jfGp0PvgnW KVMlLUDKtMR9Jip6dNXerChBpIuCospArFZg5ns6/59TljOeL1TlaFPBaVjZuBC3LwB5 RUVtFoqC1jm541pWrYIAMEhxEbHeAvXu+Mrb/aQIyTf1LVYL/b2TI9n3GoMADQ/3b+pa +Lpg== X-Gm-Message-State: AIVw112reS38KPiqt6x+p5lQ5wFYtPBCMhG9ksvFyVukvJFvhiPPpofj AYi/DFq5ErNhkA== X-Received: by 10.80.167.163 with SMTP id i32mr5501144edc.101.1499517826612; Sat, 08 Jul 2017 05:43:46 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from snth (g74110.upc-g.chello.nl. [80.57.74.110]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id m53sm3500405edc.29.2017.07.08.05.43.45 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 08 Jul 2017 05:43:45 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from avar by snth with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1dTp5M-000080-SJ; Sat, 08 Jul 2017 14:43:44 +0200 In-reply-to: <838tjzkuvs.fsf@gnu.org> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 2a00:1450:400c:c0c::231 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:216321 Archived-At: On Sat, Jul 08 2017, Eli Zaretskii jotted: >> From: Dmitry Gutov >> Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2017 14:13:44 +0300 >> Cc: Toon Claes , emacs-devel@gnu.org >> >> On 7/8/17 2:02 PM, Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason wrote: >> >> > Usually when I discover bugs in things part of Emacs itself I just work >> > around them, since starting to contribute to the project would require >> > signing papers etc., >> >> You are not helping our case, unfortunately: even if Emacs switches to >> GitLab or something similar (which I hope it will), contributing will >> still require signing papers. > > It's actually more than that: patches submitted to Emacs need to > conform to our coding and various other standards: include > properly-formatted commit log messages, documentation, and (where > appropriate) tests, etc. Patch review could require cleanup changes > etc. > > People who find this too much of an effort should perhaps describe > their solution without showing any actual code, so that someone else > could implement it. This way, copyright assignment is not an issue, > and chances are the change will be eventually made. "My project's requirements are so onerous that some find it not worth their time to contribute at all, but it's OK because those some people can instead describe in prose what their not-good-enough contributions should look like instead, surely that'll yield the same end result.". I think that's a fair paraphrasing of the point you made. Of course everything that adds extra friction to contributing is an issue, and results in fewer contributions. Anyway, I'm not trying to get into some flamewar about the relative merits of FSF's copyright policies or Emacs's contribution policy on this list. I just wanted to point out that Toon Claes's point that started this thread had been lost midway through. Which is that when people talk about having project X on Github or Gitlab they don't mean so in the narrow sense of having it be mirrored there in some capacity, or using some narrow subset of features like CI. They mean that they'd like project X to be as easy to contribute to as they're used to from contributing to other projects on those platforms. > Of course, it is better to actually sign papers, which is a one-time > hassle. > >> > which would be a huge hurdle compared to what I'm >> > fixing (none of my Magit contributions are major, just small fixes here >> > & there). >> >> Small fixes (up to ~15 lines in total) don't require copyright assignment. > > Yes. But that limit is quickly exhausted.